--- In conlang@y..., "Mike S." <mcslason@A...> wrote:
> Stephen DeGrace <stevedegrace@Y...> wrote:
>
> >Can't say I ever cottoned to the enneagram,
> >personally. That one *does* seem like voodoo tome
> >*shrug*. Could be that I'm biased by the online
tests,
> >tho. I tried a couple times, and apparently I an
> >exactly even in seven of the types as my highest
score
> >and the other three are close behind! Whatever :P.
>
> Well, I should mention that the online Riso/Hudson
test is
> only considered about 85% accurate IIRC--which is
good as far
> as such tests go but not enough to rely on in
itself.
>
> The reason that I like the enneagram is that my
sense that
> it complements Jung/MBTI so well. In my view, the
MBTI only
> captures the psyche at the mental level--in essence
it is
> a data-processing model. Data in (perceiving), data
out
> (judging). The enneagram captures the psyche at the
emotional
> level. It describes the very deep and fundamental
architypical
> motivations humans can have. BTW, the fact that the
two systems
> are describing two related but separate aspects is
why I so
> vehemently reject Riso's one-to-one correlations,
which I consider
> a serious mar on his otherwise indispensible work.
I have yet to see a Enneagram-MBTI correspondence that
I don't find risible, unless expressed in terms of
likelihoods and trends.
> Another thing that might turn off some people is the
fact that
> the enneagram types are placed on a very weird
new-agey symbol.
> Don't let that fool you. As developed by Riso, the
enneagram,
> I feel, is every bit as insightful as the MBTI. At
times,
> even more so.
I've found some of the "cycles" or whatever they're
called used to characterise and describe the enneagram
types to be interesting and useful. The "what type are
you" thing with the enneagram, though, that just
doesn't fly for me. I think if the enneagram's model
or reality _does_ happen to fit you it would probably
be rather useful, but like I've observed some
individuals make the MBTI go haywire, I seem to be
someone who makes the enneagram go haywire :P. I think
this is actually about what you would expect to happen
sometimes. All of these things, IMO, are trying to
describe an objective reality of some facet of (highly
complex and probably chaotic) human cognition by
trying to find patterns of similarity and difference
in it, and I suspect therefore it it quite inevitable
that even schemes that find rather good concordance
_couldn't_ be a rigourous description of the objective
reality, whatever that is, and should be expected to
break down either when applied to some individuals,
when thought about too deeply, or both.
> >The thing I find _really_ interesting, moreso than
the
> >times when it _does_ work like that, really well,
are
> >the times when it goes haywire and fails to fit
> >decently. The boundary conditions of any
theoretical
> >system to my mind is the most interesting area to
> >study it - and attack it <g>. To deal with some
> >"haywire" cases, and to try and make the fact that
> >Keirsey's empirical Temperament observation often
> >seems to really work not be _completely_ out of
left
> >field in respect to the theory is why I devised my
own
> >heterodox typing theory... :P Which was fun :)
>
> Of course, all of these systems have refinements to
fall back
> on whenever they appear to break down. The
enneagram has wings,
> stress and security points, and instinctual subtype
refinements;
> MBTI has tertiary and inferior functions which can
crop up
> unexpectedly; even astrology has planets and houses
and
> a practically endless set of ways they can interact.
If you
> use these systems prudently, they can be like a map
you can use
> to mine rich insights about the human condition; if
you take
> them to extremes, you end up chasing tautologies
that do more
> to obfuscate than enlighten.
With these theories I think it's most fun to take a
knife to them, cut them open, and see what makes them
tick <weg>. Hide the lambs and kitties hehehe....
anyways, as far as I'm concerned, the comparison to
astrology is probably depressingly apt :P. But yeah,
this stuff definitely has its uses, that's what's kept
me interestedall this time...
Stephen
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