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Re: Diphthongs in ASCII (was: CHAT letter names etc)

From:Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
Date:Wednesday, March 3, 2004, 20:53
En réponse à Ray Brown :

>Not if they're pronounced as tw syllables, surely? It's a feature known as >hiatus and does occur in natlangs; e.g. French 'maïs' (Br. maize, sweet >corn; Am. corn) is _disyllabic_. In phonetic transcription [ma'is] would, >I suppose, be clear enough; but stress is not phonemic in French and the >phonemic transcription must be /mais/ - but it ain't a diphthong.
Just use the syllable break mark: /./: /
>Yep - but I'm not sure what the tie-bar shows here.
That we have a single diphtongue rather than two separate vowels.
> OK, if its [a_i] we >assume the [a] is syllabic and the [i] ain't. How do you distinguish >between rising and falling diphthongs? For example, [i_u}is ambiguous; >both [ju] and [iw] occur in Brit English dialects.
The problem is that not all diphtongues are strictly rising or strictly falling. IIRC a few weeks ago there was a discussion that Finnish diphtongues sounded like separate vowels to Italian speakers because Finnish diphtongues are level, i.e. both vocalic parts have equal weight. The difference between [a_i] and [a.i] being that one is one syllable and the second is two (and usually [a_i] is shorter than [a.i]). My Maggel also features level diphtongues, so the [a_i] notation fits perfectly.
>Which leaves me now wondering what really is the best way of showing >diphthongs in ASCII?
It depends on the nature of the diphtongue in the language. ___________________________________________________________________________ En réponse à Matthew Kehrt :
> > >I had thought that '.' represented a syllable break. It was so used two >years ago when I was last active on the list. However, a cursory glance >over and > gives no use of this symbol, >and I am unfamiliar with the changes to XSAMPA that make CSX. for X-SAMPA (Daniel, the link on the Invaluable Conlang Links page doesn't work, you should change it for the one above), and for CXS. In both, you see /./ for the syllable break (in Suprasegmentals. It's the same symbol in IPA itself, incidentally). It's a symbol I use extensively, seen the nightmarish syllable structure of Maggel ;))) . Christophe Grandsire. You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang.


Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>