Re: Nasal semivowels/fricatives?

On 16 Feb 00, at 14:23, Ed Heil wrote:

> --- Paul Bennett <paulnkathy@...> wrote:
> > Here's a thought that's been buzzing tound my head
> > all afternoon (and which
> > has been making me snort and snurkle like some
> > mythical swamp-monster all
> > afternoon as well, checking and re-checking it :-)
> >
> > Could Christophes nasal stops possibly be ejective
> > (or otherwise glottalic)
> > nasals?  When I pronounce these, they seem to be
> > both a stop and a nasal.
>
> I think we may have discussed this before.  I was of
> the opinion that an ejective nasal was very unlikely
> because, well, I didn't put it this way, but it adds
> up to: nasals tend to be voiced, because unvoiced
> nasals are comparatively difficult to hear (though not
> so difficult that they don't exist in some languages,
> but they're marked), and ejectives are virtually
> always unvoiced*.
>
> Unvoiced nasals usually only exist when voiced
> counterparts also exist; however, there could not* be
> a voiced counterpart to an ejective nasal; hence it
> would be very awkward in terms of markedness for a
> language to have an ejective nasal.  It would be
> difficult to hear, and there would be no counterpart
> which is easier to hear.
>
> That said, they exist.  They're just very very very
> rare. :)
>
> Ed
>
> * I understand that voiced ejectives are said to in
> fact exist, but as I understand ejectives that would
> be a contradiction in terms -- the necessary glottis
> settings for ejectives and voice are not compatible.
> If somebody can explain to me what a "voiced ejective"
> is like, phonetically, I'd love to hear it...
>
You're right, there was a very long and relatively heated thread on
ejectives and other glottal tomfoolery not so very long ago.

I wasn't sure that the sounds I was making were really ejectives, hence the
statement
> > (or otherwise glottalic)
in my posting.

Perhaps what I'm producing is more like a simultaneous glottal stop and
(ordinary) nasal, but there's even more to it than that, as there is a more
noticable puff of air from my nostrils than when producing an ordinary
nasal.  This extra velocity(?) put me mind of an ejective, so that's what I
assumed it must be.  They're certainly nasal, voiced, feel like stops and
involve throat constriction.

Any guesses, anyone?


---
Pb