Re: Betreft: Re: Jaars IPA Helper

On 13 Jan 00, at 13:39, Christophe Grandsire wrote:

> At 13:14 13/01/00 +0100, you wrote:
> >At first I didn't knew too. Then I was told that Chinese (Mandarin) had
> >distinction unvoiced-aspirated.
> >Later I was told about the Dutch /z/, then I started taking notice.
> >Now I can hear the difference, but it is very difficult to hear.
> >
>         Oh! Now I think I can see what you're talking about. It's a distinction I
> hardly hear too but that I noticed with 'v' in Dutch, and that I hear as a
> mid-point between voiced and voiceless.
>
Doesn't Thai do something like this?  I've only ever read a holiday
phrasebook, but ISTR the book refered in it's pronounciation guide
to two (or more?) series of three stops {p,b and bp} and {t, d and dt}
which by the description sound like three levels of voicing.

I tried that distinction in the early days of both Wenetaic and
Thagojian, but it lasted about 7 minutes in each of them.  It felt
like too much trouble (or something -- How any distinction could
be too fine for Thagojian (currently at about 300 phonemes and
holding, most of them consonants) is beyond me <G>).

While we're on wierd consonant distinctions, mQlo` has the
distinction stop/click instead of voiced/unvoiced.  There is also
phonemic prenasalisation and/or lateralisation.  The prenasalised-
clicks are realised as simultaneous bilabial+original POA clicks.


---
Pb