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Re: NATLANG: Gaidhlig volunteer needed

From:Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
Date:Wednesday, March 22, 2006, 3:32
On 3/21/06, Tristan Alexander McLeay <tristan@...> wrote:
> If it was me, I'd put the aspiration last: Aspiration is defined as > delayed onset of voicing, so that the important part of the aspiration > of t_j_h will occur after the palatised stop has been released. I'm > surprised you say the aspiration occurs before any audible palatised > sound does---but maybe you're thinking of the voicelessness?
No, I was thinking that the palatalization of a palatalized stop is mostly audible in the onset of the following vowel, which comes after the aspiration.
> When a sound is velarised, it basically has a [M] (open back unrounded > vowel)
Don't you mean "close back unrounded vowel"? [M] is unrounded [u], right? That's as close as it gets.
> superimposed, much like a labio-velarised sound has a [u] > superimposed, or a palatised sound has a [i] superimposed
I hadn't thought of those that way, but in terms of [w] and [j]. The vowels do make sense, though, and that helps a lot. Thanks!
> Perhaps you or people around you sometimes vocalise your/their /l/'s: > if so, you'll notice you get a sound somewhat like /o/ or /u/, but > (frequently) without the labialisation.
[l=] still sounds pretty distinct from [7] or [M], but I guess there's a similarity there. > Anyway, so what I'm saying is the back of your tongue will be in a
> similar position as it is for a [u] (a cardinal one---many English > dialects have a somewhat/rather/very fronted /u:/), but without the > lip-rounding.
Yeah, I have no trouble pronouncing [M] and [7]. ([M] is the Japanese /u/, in particular. Also where I get to practice my [P]s..)
> (Note that English /l/ are (velarised) alveolar lateral approximates, > not dental ones.)
Yeah, point. Technically the bit I read about English not having the dental version is correct, but still misleading. Do any languages have a phonemic distinction between dental and alveolar or postalveolar POA outside of the fricative series? > Also, [l_e] could represent a pharyngealised [l] (used frex in the
> Arabic pronunciation of the word "Allah"); if the difference is > relevant, you can spell it as [l_G], which is in IPA a superscripted > gamma. It also looks nicer than an overlaid tilde.
[G] is one place I prefer the CXS to real IPA. The IPA versions of [7] and [G] are far too similar for my taste, especially in handwritten notes. Thanks for the help! -- Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>