Re: Phoneme system for my still-unnamed "Language X"

Julia "Schnecki" Simon wrote:

>Hello!
>
>On 9/7/05, Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> wrote:
>
>
[snip]

>[back to that "y for [@]" thing]
>
>
>>Some (Latin script) natlang does this, I think, but I forgot which
>>one. :-(
>>
>>
'Tis Welsh   :-)

>Hmm... Lots of natlangs seem to use <y> for [1] or for [M], and to the
>untrained ear these two can sound like [@], but that's probably not
>what you meant. ;-)
>
>I've been told that in Welsh, the vowel spelled as <y> has an
>allophone [@] in some dialects, but since I don't know any Welsh, I
>have no idea how true *that* is...
>
>
Not an allophone.

The letter |y| has two sounds in Welsh (both with long & short
variants), traditionally known as 'clear' and 'obscure'.

The 'clear' sound is identical with the sound spelled |u| which, in
north Wales is [1]  or [1:] and in south Wales [I] or [i:]. It has the
clear sound only in the final syllable of polysyllabic words and in
monosyllabic words, except those listed below.

The 'obscure' is used in all other positions and in the monosyllabic
words yn (ym, yng), yr, fy, as well a few monosyllabics borrowed from
English, e.g. nyrs ("nurse").

>>In Tyl Sjok, I have <w> for /3/, which is quite close to /@/, of
>>course.  <y> is for /1/ there (now that's boring!).
>>
>>
>
>Yes, soooo boring, *everybody* does *that*! Don't you have *any*
>imagination? ;-)
>
>
Not everybody - the Welsh normally use |u| for /1/     :-)


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