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Re: another newbie

From:Jeff Jones <jeffsjones@...>
Date:Sunday, November 24, 2002, 22:29
On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:47:40 -0500, David Barrow <davidab@...>

>Hi all
Welcome to the list.
>I'm another newbie. My interest veers more towards modifying languages >languages rather than constructing them from scratch. I call them what >if... languages in the sense of what would happen or have happened if >certain changes to the languages happen in the future,or had or hadn't >happened in the past, for example an English that hadn't lost most of >its inflexions and had kept grammatical gender or an English without >Norse, Norman, French, Latin influence, but instead had kept the >original Anglo-Saxon vocabulary but had still undergone the sound >changes modern English went through (such as gws) Or inflected languages >such as Spanish, French, German with their inflexions reduced to a level >like that of English or even further > >Anyone else interested in modified languages? I speak English and >Spanish so my interest centres mainly around these two
There are quite a few! You'll probably be hearing from some others very shortly. I mostly do languages from scratch, but have a Latin-derived conlang (Rubaga) that I work on on occasion, and also speak English and Spanish less badly than other natlangs, so feel free to show us.
>Re pronunciation of claw clawed clod > >clawed and clod are homophones in some dialects not in others, they >definitely are not in mine > >In my southern England dialect (influenced by living many years in Peru) > >clod = /klQd/ looking at the sampa page at > the only other language I >can see with this Q symbol is Danish: kors, though I suppose it's >similar to the /o/ of Spanish toro or French gros (examples from the >SAMPA page) but shorter and more open > >claw = /klO:/ >clawed = /klO:/ > >I pronounce au or aw closer to /Q/ than /O:/ in words like Austria, >Australia > >My understanding of American English is: > >clod = /klAd/ similar to a in French pâte? or Danish pakken? > >claw is /klA/ or /klO/ (French comme?) depending on dialect >clawed is /klAd/ or /klOd/ depending on dialect > >I have never heard claw pronounced as a diphthong, though I think there >are people who pronounce the final w which may make it seem like a >diphthong. Perhaps some native English speaker on the list can tell us >whether he or she does diphthongise claw > >Looking at the SAMPA page: > >BrE has /e/ in pet AmE has /E/, but then the American page uses the same >/e/ for raise does that mean Americans pronounce raid the same way I >pronounce red? Or has someone made a mistake?
I'm afraid someone has made a *mess*. The presentation there mostly omits the []'s and //'s, so that they have to be determined from context. The []'s enclose _phonetic_ notations, giving a fairly exact pronunciation, while //'s enclose _phonemic_ notations, the distinctions for a given language or dialect. Phonemic symbols can be pretty arbitrary, but generally, the simplest symbol that *suggests* the pronunciation is used. This means that phonemic symbols can't be compared across dialects.
>I'm compiling a comparison table using the examples from the SAMPA site; >maybe someone could post it on their website. This is what I have so >far: > >/a/ Cro sat Dan malle Fre patte Ger satz It rata Pol pat Por falo Rom >cap Slo c^as Spa valle Swe hall >/a:/ Dut naam Ger tat Hun láb Slo mama >/A/ AmE hot Dan pakken Dut pat Est Karu Fre pâte Nor hatt >/A:/ BrE stars Dan parken Nor hat >/{/ BrE, AmE pat Est Käru Nor vært Swe Herr >/{:/ Dan male Swe Här >/{{/ Est Kääru >/V/ BrE, AmE cut > >slashes or square brackets? can someone explain correct usage, and >apologies if I used them incorrectly > > >David Barrow
Jeff Jones (filling in for Christophe and Jan, who are apparently napping)


David Barrow <davidab@...>
Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>