----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas Johansson" <andjo@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: CHAT: cultural interpretation [was Re: THEORY: language and the
brain]
> Quoting Joe <joe@...>:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andreas Johansson" <andjo@...>
> > To: <CONLANG@...>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: CHAT: cultural interpretation [was Re: THEORY: language and
the
> > brain]
> >
> >
> > > Quoting Joe <joe@...>:
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...>
> > > > To: <CONLANG@...>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 1:25 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: CHAT: cultural interpretation [was Re: THEORY: language
and
> > the
> > > > brain]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 11:18:48AM +0100, michael poxon wrote:
> > > > > > Sorry, but this notion of the US being the acme of freedom is
> > complete
> > > > tosh.
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't say "acme", I said "prototype". First, not necessarily
best.
> > > > > And the US was, in fact, the first modern nation to have rule by
the
> > > > > people's representatives rather than by a monarch who either
inherited
> > the
> > > > > job or was chosen by some other less inclusive means.
> > > >
> > > > Switzerland?
> > >
> > > How democratic was the pre-1798 system? Some swift browsing suggests
it
> > left
> > > effective power in the hand of aristocrats and merchant elites, with
> > little
> > > influence for peasants and poor city-dwellers.
> >
> > And largely the US power at that time rested in the hands of white
males.
> > Neither can claim to be prototypical for democracy without having equal
> > voting rights for all over a certain(low-ish) age.
>
> I strongly tempted to argue that the prototype for democracy is Classical
> Athens, wherefore keeping women and slaves out of the electorate
strengthens
> the early USA's claim to be a democracy.
>
> More relevantly, going by how the word have actually been applied in the
last
> quarter millennium or so, excluding women from the electorate does not
prevent
> a state from being democratic, excluding the lower classes does.
I would say that excluding anyone of sound mind who is over the age of
suffrage, male, female, poor, rich, black or white, makes a state
undemocratic. Which means that the UK did not become truly democratic until
the 20s, nor did the USA, entirely.
> Andreas
>