Re: CHAT: cultural interpretation [was Re: THEORY: language and the brain]

On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 01:10:39AM +1000, Tristan wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 00:28, Andreas Johansson wrote:
> > Also, it seems to me that Englishers tend to hear [dZ_0] as /dZ/ rather
> > than /tS/. Nativers?
All of this [voiced_0] vs [unvoiced] stuff is still very mysterious to
me.  I have no clue how to pronounce [dZ_0] or [v_0] other than
like [tS] and [f].  And if I try to distinguish stops that way,
e.g. [d_0] vs [t], the only difference is that the former comes out
[t] and the latter comes out [t_h].

> Well, I'm not exactly sure what it is phonetically, nor even if this is
> the same thing as what you're talking about, but /tS/ after /s/ I hear
> as /dZ/, and I'm not alone in this. Hence, 'nextyear' sounds like
> [neksdZI:@] to me (actually, phonemically it, and lastyear, do have
> /-dZ-/, but there when a normal word ending in -st and a normal word
> beginning in /j-/ are pronounced adjacent in normal speech, the result
> sounds like [sdZ]; normally /t+j/=[tS]).
Huh.  Is it really voiced or does it just sound like it to you?
If it's voiced, I wonder where it comes from; "next year" definitely sounds like
[nEks'tSI`r\] to me, not [nEks'dZI`r\]. If it's not really voiced
but just sounds as if it is, then you may have found the to-me-mysterious
[dZ_0].  Not that it helps me reproduce it. :)

-Mark

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