Re: Various Commands (was Uralic Negative Verbs)

John Vertical wrote:

>> >Joe <joe@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >Hmm.  "Let me die now [because I'm so happy]"
>> >             die-1SG.IMP now
>>
>> >Of course, in English, that's gramatically a 2nd person
>> >imperative+infinitive construction, but semantically, I would say,
>> >is a first person imperative.
> I disagree... semantically, it seems more like a plea.
That's because of the grammar as Joe explains so well. What should be
the subject is grammatically the object. The way imperative is built in
English with "let" always looks like to be addressed to a 2nd person
even when it's a 1st person imperative.

> I don't think it's even possible to actually order oneself. Alternately,
> it's trivial - everything a person does is "ordered" by hirself... but
> these are mental orders.
Haven't you ever faced an annoying person and thought to yourself "Be
patient, don't argue" or whatever of the same kind? To who are these
commands addressed? To yourself. That could be a use for 1st person
imperative.

As for mental orders, they could be the first reason for the existence
of a 1st person imperative: to order to myself to do something that I am
   not already doing.

**Let I go to work!

In English there is no other way than to say it in an indirect way.

I must go to work now!

> I mean, a language can sure allow for a first person
> imperative construction, but it can be only used to announce an already
> existing urge; never to inform oneself of it. This is what makes true
> 1SG imperativs impossible.
ObConlang: Like Caerulean Charlie's Senjecan, Shaquelingua has an
imperative mode that can applies to 1st, 2nd and 3rd person, singular or
plural.

(Unicode: "ā" = a+macron, "ē" = e+macron, "ō" = o+macron)

ko               -kē
IMPERATIVE+FUTURE-INGRESSIVE

kokē'kja ! [kokE:'kja] = Let me begin!
kokē'rja ! [kokE:'Xja] = Begin!
kokē'dja ! [kokE:'dja] = Let him/her/ey begin!

kokē'kairā ! [kokE:'ka"iX3] = Let all of us begin!
kokē'raitā ! [kokE:'Xa"it3] = Let all of you begin!
kokē'daçi ! [kokE:'daCi] = Let them begin!

Eventually...

kokē'skaj ! [kokE:'skaj] = Let nobody begin!
kokē'jaa ! [kokE:'ja"a] = Let something begin!

(Nobody, nothing, somebody and something are regular pronouns in
Shaquelingua, amongst other oddities.)

An imperative + 1SG is what a Shaquean would use to urge emself to do
something and not a 2SG as if ey were talking to somebody else.

ske tule dafādōy kiyō'kja!
[ske: tu4e daf3dOW kiWO:'kja]
= I shall not lie.

kiyō                'kja
IMPERATIVE+ATEMPORAL=1SG

This construction with the Atemporal tense and 1SG has --from a shaquean
point of view-- the strongest moral/ethical value. When you read it, it
doesn't sounds as if you ordered somebody else or as if something were
ordered to you, it's reflexive.

ko'vaa! [ko:'va"a]

ko               'vaa
IMPERATIVE+FUTURE=RESUMPTIVE
= So be it!

--
==================
Remi Villatel
maxilys_@_tele2.fr
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