Re: /H/ (was: An Unknown Conlang)

At 06:43 07/07/00 +0100, you wrote:
>
>Very true - and I'm not convinced /H/ has _phonemic_ status in French either.
>
I'm not convinced that _any_ semivowel has phonemic status in French. They
may be only allophones of the high vowels. Yet they are perceived as
different from their corresponding vowels by the speakers, so one important
condition for allophonicity (that the speakers don't see the difference) is
not verified. Mandarin is not the only language to make problems when we
want to make a phonemic inventory. Some pairs (like /2/-/9/ - SAMPA IPA -)
really seem to work like allophones, and yet they are perceived as
different vowels.

>>Anyway, in any syllable for the form {j,q,x}uVN, where V is a vowel, and
>>N is n or ng or null, the u is pronounced [H].
>
>Yes, surely [H] can be considered an allophone of /y/ in French?  Could, in
>theory, /lyi/ exist as well as /lHi/?  I.e.Could one coin the word _luï_ in
>French for some new product (even a new conlang)?
>
I can make the difference between those two words. If we take such an
argument, all semivowels are simply allophones of high vowels (I'm not sure
about /w/ and /u/. Some people seem to make a difference between Louis
/lui/ the name and louis /lwi/ the coin. But I wonder if it's not simply
overcorrection). If we take the argument that the speakers don't see the
difference and would pronounce all /y/ followed by an /i/ as /H/, I'm not
sure it's true. I'm sure I can make the difference between those two sounds.

>Could we, in theory, have [yit] as a different word from [Hit] (huit)?
>
>Not wishing to be contentious - but genuinely just curious.
>
You're not contentious. Anyway I'm wondering about the phonemic status of
the semivowels too. It seems to be a case which is at the edge of the
phonemic theory. I cannot give you a strict answer. I don't know it myself.

                                                Christophe Grandsire
                                                |Sela Jemufan Atlinan C.G.

"Reality is just another point of view."

homepage : http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr
(ou : http://www.bde.espci.fr/homepages/Christophe.Grandsire/index.html)