Re: Negation?

At 10:48 am +0200 7/7/99, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
=2E....
>        Exactly! I understand that I was not very clear (damn English!).
>What I
>seek is negation without a word or words that have the concept of 'not' in
>them, like my use of 'to refuse to' (it's very affirmative, believe me!) as
>a negation.
Yep - and most suggestions to date have merely incorporated 'not' in some
other way, e.g. in a negative auxialiary a la Finnoise, or a negative
prefix fused with subject pronoun (prefix) as in Swahili & other Bantulangs.

What Christophe wants is not uncommon as equivalents of the English
negative _imperative_, e.g. in Welsh such imperatives are formed by using
'peidio' (to cease, desist), e.g.

Paid =E2 chwerthin =3D don't laugh (fam. sing.)
Peidiwch =E2 thalu =3D don't pay (polite sing.; plural)

Literally: desist from laughing; desist from paying.

(The =E2 causes spirant mutation - talu --> thalu - but is omitted in many
spoken dialects where they say simply: peidiwch talu).

Indeed, there does seem to be tendency in some languages not to use
expressions like the above instead of negative imperatives.  I'm quite sure
somewhere one would find "refuse to pay" being used.

But I've never come across this extended to the plain ol' indicative mood
as Christophe is suggesting.
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At 5:15 pm -0700 7/7/99, Matt Pearson wrote:
=2E...
>Very interesting.  Reminds me of Laadan, in which it is allegedly impossibl=
e
>to directly contradict someone (although, as we've discussed on this list,
>that's not strictly speaking true).
Unless human nature changes, I think any language inventor is going to find
it darn difficult to prevent really determined speakers finding some way of
directly contradicting someone  :)

Ray.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
[J.G.Hamann - 1760]
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D