Re: Verb order in Montreiano

At 4/3/01 01:46 PM -0400, you wrote:
>MArcus Smith wrote:
>>At 4/2/01 04:16 PM -0400, you wrote:
>>>In a message dated 4/2/01 12:00:07 PM, jaspax@U.WASHINGTON.EDU writes:
>>>
>>><< (is this nom/acc
>>>
>>>or erg/abs or agt/pat?) >>
>>>
>>>     What's the last pair?
>>
>>agt/pat are often used for active/stative. They are common terms, but
>>incrediblly misleading.
>
>I thought that agent/patient was a distinction for nouns while
>active/stative refered to verbs? Am I totally wrong?
Hence, the reason I said the terms are misleading.

In traditional terms, what you say is correct. Unfortunately, these terms
get less clear when you deal with some languages. The agt/pat distinction
refered to above is used for languages like Chickasaw and Mohawk, in which
the subject of an active intransitive verb is marked like the subject of a
transitive verb, and the subject of a stative intransitive verb is marked
like the object of a transitive verb. Some people describe this as an
agt/pat distinction, because the marking of the subject of an intransitive
verb corresponds with the agent and patient of a transitive verb, even
though these subjects do not necessarily correspond with the semantics of
agent and patient. Others refer to the distinction as active/stative to
reflect the semantics that condition the alternation; though once again,
active/stative is not necessarily the correct distinction. As someone
mentioned before, there was a heated debate about this a little while back,
so you can find details in the archives if you want to.



Marcus Smith

"Sit down before fact as a little child,
be prepared to give up every preconceived notion,
follow humbly wherever and to whatsoever abysses Nature leads,
or you shall learn nothing."
                -- Thomas Huxley