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Re: OT: Slightly OT: dreidel question

From:Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...>
Date:Tuesday, December 27, 2005, 23:27
On Dec 27, 2005, at 1:17 PM, Mark J. Reed wrote:
> I'm a bit confused about the history of the dreidel and its > association with Hanukkah.  I know the dreidel was originally a > gambling device (the original d4, in D&D terms).   I know that in the > context of the Hanukkah game, the four letters stand for the Yiddish > words for "Nothing", "Everything", "Half", and "Put" or "Pay", while > in the larger context of Hanukkah itself they are construed as an > acronym for the Hebrew phrase "A great miracle happened here/there". > But which came first?  I have found explanations that give both > directions - that the game started with the Yiddish letters which were > then reinterpreted as the acronym, or that they started with the > acronym and then developed the game mechanics to match.  The latter > interpretation seems to be more common, but the information I've found > so far is lacking in detail. > I don't know how old the association is, but if it dates back to the > beginning of the Hanukkah custom, then I don't think Yiddish existed > yet? > Sorry for my confusion, but my Google-fu has failed me here.  Any > pointers appreciated. > -- > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
From what i've read it seems that the 'practical' meaning of the letters predates the 'religious' meaning of them, and that they were copied from similar German d4-based games which used similar words. It's unclear when exactly Yiddish developed into a recognizably separate language, but there's a long history of Jews writing their vernacular in Hebrew letters. So even in Yiddish as such hadn't yet developed, there was still a kind of Judeo-German being written on the dreidls. -Stephen (Steg)