Re: OT: Slightly OT: dreidel question

On Dec 27, 2005, at 1:17 PM, Mark J. Reed wrote:
> I'm a bit confused about the history of the dreidel and its
> association with Hanukkah.  I know the dreidel was originally a
> gambling device (the original d4, in D&D terms).   I know that in the
> context of the Hanukkah game, the four letters stand for the Yiddish
> words for "Nothing", "Everything", "Half", and "Put" or "Pay", while
> in the larger context of Hanukkah itself they are construed as an
> acronym for the Hebrew phrase "A great miracle happened here/there".
> But which came first?  I have found explanations that give both
> directions - that the game started with the Yiddish letters which were
> then reinterpreted as the acronym, or that they started with the
> acronym and then developed the game mechanics to match.  The latter
> interpretation seems to be more common, but the information I've found
> so far is lacking in detail.
> I don't know how old the association is, but if it dates back to the
> beginning of the Hanukkah custom, then I don't think Yiddish existed
> yet?
> Sorry for my confusion, but my Google-fu has failed me here.  Any
> pointers appreciated.
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>

 From what i've read it seems that the 'practical' meaning of the
letters predates the 'religious' meaning of them, and that they were
copied from similar German d4-based games which used similar words.
It's unclear when exactly Yiddish developed into a recognizably
separate language, but there's a long history of Jews writing their
vernacular in Hebrew letters.  So even in Yiddish as such hadn't yet
developed, there was still a kind of Judeo-German being written on the
dreidls.


-Stephen (Steg)