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Re: Fave Conlangs WAS: Silindion

From:Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>
Date:Tuesday, March 26, 2002, 16:42
Christian Thalmann wrote:
>--- In conlang@y..., Andreas Johansson <and_yo@H...> wrote: > > Raymond Brown wrote: > > >At 12:11 am +0100 23/3/02, Christian Thalmann wrote: > > > >That's a very interesting but tough question... > > > > > > > >- Quenya certainly ranks highest on my list. Tolkien tried hard to > > > >make it as beautiful as possible, and apart from the inexplicable > > > >omission of /Z/ he succeeded exceedingly well. > > > > > >Nothing inexplicable - Tolkien kept ugly sounds like /Z/ for things >like > > >Sauron's 'Black Tongue' :) > > > > Actually, /Z/ seems to be unattested in Tolkien's created languages - it > > doesn't even pop up in Black Speech or Valarin*, despite that the few >words > > we know are quite rich in /s z S/. It seems that Tolkien' really >despised > > /Z/. > >Quite a rash and unfounded deduction IMHO. Do you happen to be a >theologist, or a politician? ;-)
I disagree with the implication that theologist are more-than-averagely prone to rash and unfounded deductions, but no, I'm neither.
>/Z/ apparently doesn't occur (at least not natively) in the languages >Tolkien mainly used for inspiration (Latin, Finnish, Old English, >Welsh (?), German). His omission of /Z/ is probably not any more >significant than the absence of retroflexes, voiceless nasals, >or clicks.
But it does occur several languages he did know, and I rather suspect that it's alot more common across the world than are retroflexes*, voiceless nasals or clicks. And both the Valarin and Black Speech inventories would looks neater and more regular with a /Z/ thrown in, whereas you'd need to add a whole new series to fit in either of your suggestions and maintain neatness. It may also be noted that /S/ seems to be restricted to the non-Elvish languages. * Indeed, there's no reason he couldn't've disliked retroflexes - several people on this list seems to do.
> > Neither does he seem to've liked /G/, which swiftly disappears > > everytime it turns up in the Elvish languages, but persists in Black > > Speech. > >This, on the other hand, is a clear case.
This is what I call a rash deduction! :-) Seriously, it's a well-founded suspicion, but we can't know.
>Also, I do think he disliked /2/, since it would have occurred in >Sindarin's umlauting system, but got merged into /y/ and /e/.
Tend to agree. Andreas _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: