Re: OT: Corpses, etc. (was: Re: Gender in conlangs (was: Re: Umlauts (was Re: Elves and Ill Bethisad)))

--- Isidora Zamora <isidora@...> wrote:

> Thank you for reminding me that alleys are
> indeed narrow.  I keep thinking
> about the more public portions of Sovchilen,
> which is a beautiful city with a lot of open
> space.
Like the parts of Hoopelle where the Old Tower
stands. It's all parks and fair grounds and
similar. Daine aren't allowed there during the
day, but sneak in sometimes for a little dogging.
Of course, at night they sneak up there to get
married, cos that's where the utnap is. This is a
big rounded stone that has been their traditional
marrying place since before Men came along.

> It also has slum areas. The streets are a lot
> narrower there, and, you are correct, that a
> sword might not be especially
> useful in an alley.
A long one, anyway.

> > > I don't know to what degree the military
> will
> > > use deadly force against
> > > someone caught committing a crime.  For
> > > instance, I don't know whether, if
> > > a thief is caught in the act and runs from
> the
> > > military, and the soldier
> > > has a bow, if he is allowed to simply shoot
> him
> > > down.
> >
> >I guess it depends on how important the trial
> >process is. In Hoopelle, it wasn't terribly
> >important, even for most Men.
>
> Trehelan is a representative democracy.
Ah, well, allright then! Hoopelle was an
autocracy, really.

> >  And anyway, the
> >Guard has broad powers of executing Justice.
> If a
> >Guard saw you do something, you done it, and
> he
> >could punish you for it.
>
> The Trehelish soldier doesn't have the power to
> punish you, at least not
> until after you've been sentenced by a judge.
> (It is a soldier who will do
> the whipping or the hanging.)  But I expect
> that the word of a soldier in a
> court of law is going to carry a good deal more
> wieght than your own.
Certainly.

> If he says he saw you do it, and you say that >
you didn't do it, which one of
> you is the judge going to believe?
One of the principal reasons for allowing trials
of accused Daine is that they have a strong
innate sense of justice and right. They are
always scandalised and can never comprehend how a
Judge could possibly believe a liar! Also makes
for a good opportunity for the audience to throw
rotten fruits at the accused.

They're fine entertainment whether innocent or
guilty as the latter often flaunt their crimes in
the face of the Court.

> >  If that punishment meant
> >hauling you up before the Bench so you could
> be
> >punished in a publicly educational manner, so
> >much the better.
>
> "Punished in a publicly educational manner."
> Now that is a phrase to remember.
Consider the inscription on the Great Gallows,
which line the Gallows Road to the east of
Hoopelle. It says "For the Edification of Man and
Wilding" and has got icons from the Dance of
Death on it. It is a very sturdy structure made
of arched stone and brick with two levels for
hanging people. It can accomodate six hundred
bodies, some famous of which were on permanent
display. For educational purposes, mind. There is
a sad little stand of ancient forest to the north
of the Road, and this was where the bodies of
Daine were chucked. Usually dead, but some
otherwise.

> Yes, that is the basic principle
> upon which all Trehelish
> criminal justice is founded.
Huh. The basic principal of Hoopellish justice
was that Justice Will Be Done. If it got done on
the criminal in question, so much the better.

> >Metal toes are very handy. They provide
> >protection to the toes and feet (i.e., from
> >dropped or thrown objects like stones) and
> also
> >provide for some extra weight behind a kick
> when
> >knackerin some poor sod what ye'd just dropped
> >with a cestus to the throat. Yeah. :D
>
> Ouch.
>
> My father used to have a pair of steel-toed
> boots.
Mine too. Old battered leather things with steel
plates strapped on top.

> > > Really, though, they are not supposed to
> > > be getting into those sorts
> > > of fights with civilians.
> >
> >Well, don't they, for example, have to enter
> >Publick Houses and introduce the bastards to
> >the concept of Justice? ;)
>
> That's more common in the smaller towns where
> everyone knows each other.  I
> suppose that it's also necessary in some
> districts of Sovchilen.  To a
> great degree, I think that they believe that
> that is the problem of the
> tavern owner (in Sovchilen, at least.)
Hm. Publicans in old Hoopelle would be of the
opinion that they pay their taxes, so the Guard
shall jolly well step in. :) Depends on the
severity of the brawl, mind. A one pub brawl can
usually be handled by the bouncer. If it spreads
or becomes more of a melee or perhaps a riot,
then the Guard need to get involved before some
real violence sets in.

> If a fight breaks out in such an
> establishment, then the men who fought, as well
> as all the witnesses, can
> appear in court the next day and explain to the
> judge what happened,
> especially if there was damage to the tavern or
> the men, but they're not
> going to station soldiers inside every drinking
> establishment in a large
> city in order to keep things quiet.
I should think they'd manage that rotation on
their own! Or are they all teatotallers? ;)

> >Keep in mind that all these items also serve
> >offensive purposes, too. A maniple or cestus
> >to
> >the face is very painful (a cestus being brass
> >knuckles). Bronze greaves to the nuts will
> >definitely but a dent in your fighting spirit
> >and will to resist.
>
> I expect that the soldiers are taught how to
> fight dirty,
Nah. They have to _learn_ how to fight clean.
They learnt how to fight dirty when they were
kiddos wandering the streets of a big and
dangerous city!

> since such a
> fighting style can be quite effective - and
> since the criminals are not
> going to restrict themselves to nice fighting.
Certainly not. Daine favour leaping down from the
gutters and poking at the Guards' unprotected
eyes. They're not above hiding in the shadows and
sticking a knife into an unprotected knee.

> > > It's more compact, and
> > > you don't have to worry about
> > > losing the keys.
> >
> >Ah, keys. ;)
>
> Yes, keys.  And also not keys...anyone have any
> idea how to go about
> picking an old fashioned lock, the kind that
> takes a "skeleton" key with
> wards, etc.?
Hm. A magic lock, eh? Pretty tough, that. Modern
locks around the region usually involve "push
keys" - I don't know the right term for them.
Essentially a piece of metal (flat or curved)
with a series of teeth cut out is pushed into the
lock which has matching indentations inside.

Padraic.


=====
fas peryn omen c' yng ach h-yst yn caleor peryn ndia;
enffoge yn omen ach h-yst yn caleor per la gouitha.
   [T. Pratchett]

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