Re: OT: Corpses, etc. (was: Re: Gender in conlangs (was: Re: Umlauts (was Re: Elves and Ill Bethisad)))

--- Isidora Zamora <isidora@...> wrote:
> >\> One additional piece of
> > > information that might possible figure in
> or
> > > might not is that somewhere
> > > between 1500-2000 years ago, the ancestors
> of
> > > the Cwendaso/Tovláug were
> > > anamists and ancestor worshipers.  This
> might
> > > possibly affect how human
> > > remains are seen today,
> >
> >Sure. If you have a great respect for your
> >ancestors, I'd think you might tend to
> continue
> >personalising their remains.
>
> That's quite possible.  What I haven't figured
> out yet is if they are in
> the habit of going to the barrows and talking
> to departed friends and
> relatives, or if they believe that their
> spirits cannot possibly hear them
> or perhaps no longer care about things in the
> land of the living.
Daine do go to the ossuaries (or other grave
sites), in spite of their belief that the
departed soul has move on. It's like with us:
many of us believe in some kind of migration of
the soul, whether it be into a heaven or into
another life; yet we still visit and even bother
with cemeteries. There is a psychological
attachment or connection with the dead that the
living can't easily shake. So, even if the spirit
her dear departed grandmother is currently
abiding in the body of her young son, a Daine
woman might still mourn and wish to commemorate
the bond she shared with the older woman.

> If there
> are any reflexes left from the old religion,
> then they would expect the
> departed to still take an interest in this
> world, even if they can no
> longer affect things here, therefore, they
> might go out to the graves and
> talk to them when there is something on their
> mind.
Yeah.

> I think that I will probably give the Cwendaso
> language two words for
> "bone."  One will refer to animal bone, which
> they carve into various
> implements.  The other will refer to human
> skeletons, which they are very
> careful with, because they do not allow human
> remains to become defiled.
A useful distinction for the Cw. While Daine
don't fear remains, neither do they see it as
defilement to make a flute out of a relative's
arm. ;)

> Now
> that I think about it, the Trehelish, with
> their pathological fear of
> uncremated human bones, may need more than one
> term corresponding to
> "bone."  I suspect that I can get away without
> creating specialized lexical
> items, though, if I simply use a set of idiom
> such as "charred bones" and
> "uncharred bones."
Or something along the lines of "safe" and
"unsafe" bones. I.e., bones rendered
nonthreatening. That way, if it's just human
bones they fear, animal bones would naturally be
"safe". But then, how do they know if a bone
they've picked up is nòt human? [Most times it's
obvious, but there are some that are more
difficult to tell...]

> They were instructed by "The Instructor"
> (Tovléis, tovl - 'to instruct' +
> pres. act. part.), who came to them.  He didn't
> tell them who he was, but
> they believe that he was either one of the gods
> or a messenger of the gods.
Ah, sort of like The Teacher is to the Telerani.
A person of unknown name who brought new
religious thought to the land. [External records
do give a somewhat fuller biography, though.]

> The first thing that he told them was
> that the spirits of animals,
> which they worshipped, were not divine, and
> neither were the spirits of their ancestors.
Usually, the first thing The Teacher would tell
people is that drinking and card playing were not
at all sinful, and in fact, the Lord Christ
regularly played at whist or canasta with his
disciples of a quiet evening. (Not all of this
teaching is reflected in the Book, by the way!)

> "The Instruction" from tovl
> - 'to instruct' + -m, nominalizing suffix.)
> Tovlm in English can be found
> on my website, at the bottom of the Cwendaso
> section.
Excellent! I'll have to look into that. The
Teacher's book can be found at mine.

> The modern Cwendaso word for
> person is éimikh, so the modern Cwendaso call
> their ancestors Éimikhad, but
I like that! Reminds me of "amica", friend.

> >I mentioned long ago that Talarian comes from
> >Talar + Arias, "Lords of the Land".
>
> This is all interesting information.  It's
> always interesting when the two
> of us end up talking about Daine and
> Cwendaso/Tovláugad.
Well, there seems to be some common ground;
though there are clear enough differences!

> BTW, how do you
> pronounce Daine?  I have assumed that it is
> [daine] with the stress on the first
> syllable.
I've always pronounced it /den/, but I suspect
you may be closer with /da.in/ or /dajn/. The -e
is the English-equivalent-language's nom./acc.
singular ending (cf. ston-e, in English), so
isn't part of the native word at all!

Padraic.


=====
To him that seeks, if he knock, the door will be opened;
if he seeks, he shall find his way; if he searches for a way, he shall find his path.
For though the Way is narrow, it's wisdom is written in the hearts of all:
if ye would seek and find Rest, look first within!  [The Petricon]

--

Ill Bethisad --
<http://www.geocities.com/elemtilas/ill_bethisad>


Come visit The World! --
<http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>







.

Reply