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ooh, vowels, these luvely vowels...

From:b walker <b_elliott_walker@...>
Date:Sunday, March 9, 2003, 8:58
Oh, thanks for the reply, Aidan! your data is always
appreciated. my reply follows farther down...

>i want to go from a system of: > >a: e: i: o: >a i o > >to: > >a: i: u: >a i u @ > >-with a low vs. high tonal distinction, just to make >things interesting.... > >so, any ideas how i might derive such a thing from >existing Cree vocabulary? i realise not having my >wanted consonant inventory makes it a bit
>but still... any input would be nice.
Aidan stated:
>Aha! Easy - very similar to Old Irish development!
oh, that's kuehl. i like irish's etabnannimousness. (sp?) my top would blow off if i ever had to learn it, though...
>First, where do the high/low tones present? Are long >vowels high tone? >I've got other ideas, which I'll get to in a second.
i was planning to incorporate a tonogenesis sequence somewhat like what's been ascribed to Kickapoo. its preaspirated intervocalic consonantal series dropped aspiration, and the preceeding syllable became [+ low tone]. since Cree has a preaspirated consonant series, i figured i'd do somewhat the same thing, in keeping it's 'algonquian plausibility factor'. lots of alaskan/northern BC athapaskan langs got hi/lo tone this way too, by the loss of a glottalised consonant series. although, i do need to look up Siksika, (blackfoot) - it's got tone too, and REALLY radical sound change.
> e: > i: (you might also have shortened e>i show up >in certain contexts) > o, o: > u, u: > (all of these exactly as in Old irish)
> @ arises in unstressed syllables (from a or orig. >o), or from /&/ as a >result of i-umlaut. Or some other way.
hmm, let's take a look at some Albertan Plains Cree, and run it through that: maamawipicikeewinan - 'an amalgamation' okaaminakasiy - 'rosebush thorn' ciipacistahweew - 's/he pierces him/her through with a spear' maam@wipicikiiwinan ukaaminakasiy ciip@cistàwiiw hmm. doesn't look much different in these three examples, but i like the ideas from old irish, indeed. but, what should i do with /i/, or /a:/ and /a/? i've decided (here, anyways) that /a/ centralises to /@/ following a long vowel. looks like i need to get out the ole graph paper and make a chain-shift diagram...
> > High tone can be an effect of stress - IE >supposedly had tone determined >stress, as does Greek. Another way to do it would be >that closed syllables >(syllables ending with a consonant not a vowel) >become low tone, with high >tone in open syllables. This would happen at an early >stage, that later >sound changes could have low tone open syllables, and >high tone closed >syllables. Is there a neutral tone too?
nope, just low vs. high. rather an on/off sort of thing. close-syllable tone is a neat-o process, but wouldn't be much good with Cree, cuz the only codas allowed are /n/, /s/, /w/, and /y/, with the last two only word-finally.
> Examples based on totally random words (stress ', >high tone with - >after, low tone unmarked): > > tanopse: > t@-'nu:-psi:- or ta- > kantora > kan'tu-r@- > > For a properly Amerindian sort of lang, I think >you'd need to have >vowels (and clusters) affecting consonants too (tua > >twa), and you should >probably allow allophonic variations (so that a>o >before u in next syllable >kan'tu-r@- > kon'tu-r@-, and prob i>e/_a, u>o/_a, >a>e/_i, and so on).
hmm, yes. allophonic variation must be considered. Cree has some word-boundary vowel transformation that i should look into for that sort of thing. i wouldn't want to go so far as worrying about vowel harmony or umlauting processes, though. lotsa stuff to chew on though. any ideas for /i/ or /a:/ movement? byron ===== +--------------------------------------------------------+ | ~littera scripta manet ~ the written word abides~ | | ~~B. Elliott Walker ~ ~~ | + + | I hereby unendorse anything Yahoo! puts below my sig. | +--------------------------------------------------------+ ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now!


Tristan <kesuari@...>