Re: Are conlangs fictional?

En réponse à Jan van Steenbergen <ijzeren_jan@...>:

>
> > My opinion is that they're obviously not, whereas
> > others have argued eloquently and at length that
> > they are. What's the consensus on Conlang?
>
> How much more fictional could they actually be?
>
You see? Confusion on terms. What do you mean in this case by "fictional"?

And to give some comparisons: what would be a fictional painting, other than a
painting referred to in a story, but which doesn't exist in reality? But if the
author paints a painting in real life, and then uses it in a story, does it
make suddenly the painting fictional? I guess not, since the painting is here
in real life and can be seen outside the context of the fiction it's used in.
It's the same with Tolkien's languages. They exist outside the context of
Tolkien's stories, which means that they cannot be fictional in the common
sense of the word.

Well, I guess this explanation is even better than my lengthier one :)) . It
seems that people are giving two different meanings to the
word "fictional": "used in the context of a fiction (which doesn't mean it
cannot exist outside of this context)" or "existing only in the context of a
fiction (meaning that apart from what we learn of it in the fiction, there's
nothing else)", and argue because they take different meanings as primary.

Let's take another example: The Necronomicon, this "unholy" book used in H.P.
Lovecraft's stories, was definitely fictional: apart from a few quotes that we
can see in his stories, there is nothing else, and we can be nearly sure that
he never wrote this book himself. Still, IIRC a book called the Necronomicon
and based on the little evidence we get from Lovecraft's stories has later been
written. This Necronomicon is *not* fictional. Anyone can have it in his/her
hands, it's an object of the real world (whatever reality is :)) ). Whether
this Necronomicon has anything to do with the fictional Necronomicon of
Lovecraft's stories, we cannot know, since Lovecraft was already dead when this
book was made.

I hope the difference between the two meanings of the word "fictional" as used
around here is clear now :)) .

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.

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