Re: Cant (was: Question about Romlangs/CeltiConlangs)

Quoting Eamon Graham <robertg@...>:

> Jan van Steenbergen wrote:
>
> > I knew that this strange Irish-based language Shelta is also known as
> > "the Cant", but somehow never realized it could be derived from Latin
> > "cantare". Do you know if those Scottish sailors' song, IIRC shanties,
> > ?have the same etymology?
>
> Scottish "shanty" or English "chantey/chanty" is supposed to be a
> corruption of the French imperative chantez meaning "sing!"  In this
> case, the Scottish pronunciation of the initial is closer to the
> French.
The word is said to have been attested first in 1856, although
for some reason I find this suspicious.  There are many English
words that were borrowed before some sound change in French,
and which preserve the original.  English even has doublets
of those borrowed before and those after:  _chief_ (with the
original Old French [tS]) and _chef_ (with the later [S]).  It
strikes me that _chanty_ and _shanty_ may be another such pair,
though the *English* would be original.

> Incidentally, did "the Cant" come from Latin directly or via Irish
> caint (which MacBain derives from Latin through Old Irish canim and
> relates to Welsh cana and Breton kana)?
It's first attested in the 14th century, and the lexicographers
assume it's from Middle Low German _kant_.

 =========================================================================
Thomas Wier
Dept. of Linguistics  "Nihil magis praestandum est quam ne pecorum ritu
University of Chicago sequamur antecedentium gregem, pergentes non qua
1010 E. 59th Street   eundum est, sed qua itur." -- Seneca
Chicago, IL 60637

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