Re: Triggeriness ...

Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...> writes:
>No, but you belong to the same category.
Yes, but we're *not* the same thing, which is what you suggest when saying
"why not call them cases?"
>
>
>> If you want to be liberal, we can say all languages have case. However
>i'm
>> speaking of explicit case, not implied.
>
>That was not clear. Still, the Tagalog trigger does look like an explicit
>case
>marker.
It's pretty clear to me: Explicit - obvious, implied - not obvious.

What "case" is the marker then?

I see a difference between something that marks which word is emphasized
and one that tells you the role of the word in relation to others.
>
>
>
>Terminology seems to've changed during this discussion; "trigger" used to
>refer to the marker indicating the focused noun. If you are now refering
>the
>the verbal markers telling us what function the focused nouns has, that's
>indeed not case markers. I'd follow Javier's lead and say they're a kind
>of
>voice markers.
I still do not see the trigger markers as case markers, because they *do
not* have any other role than to indicate where emphasis of the verb is.
>
>
>
>Actually, case affixes indicate how the noun arguments relate to the
>_verb_
>(how else could you have case affixes in intransitive sentences without
>oblique arguments?).
OK. But they also indicate relation to each other, right? If not, then you
may want to update the fine folks on the linguistics mailing list.
>
>
>I can imagine a noun having a trigger marker, or not having a trigger
>marker,
>but _neither_? I would not believe that when I saw it with my own eyes!
Neither = prepositions.

>
>I think you should update your understanding of "case".
OK then Andreas, since you'be been rallying so hard to convince me that it
is case, then explain in *simple terms* as best you can what case is
*exactly*. Keep the terminology simple, keep it plain.
>
>
>Again, I don't know Tagalog, but from the descriptions and examples by
>you and
>others in this thread, it looks like a lang that's grammaticalized
>emphasis,
>and uses case marking to indicate it.
And to me it has gramaticalized emphasis and uses markers to indicate
which word is the focus or which is not.





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