Re: Palatalized / Labialized consonants

John Cowan wrote:

> Oh yes.  Russian itself has a four-way distinction between /pa/,
/p;a/,
> /pja/, and /p;ja/ (using ; ad hoc for palatalization).  These are
written
> p+a, p+ya, p+hard+ya, and p+soft+ja respectively.  /pja/ is quite rare
> even in the (conservative) standard language, and is often pronounced
> /p;ja/, but neither is collapsed with /p;a/.
As a native speaker of Russian, I agree with John. The same four-way
distinction is also found in Ukrainian. I would not say that /pja/ is
extinct, at least here in Kiev (where, although, it may be supported by
Ukrainian influence - Ukrainian is less heavy as for palatalization than
Russian).

==================
Outo Otus wrote:

> I would have thought it very hard to make a distinction between "p;a"
> and "p;ja", even impossible. ... I
> don't think you could make an articulatory or auditory distinction
between
> the secondary articulation of palatalization and the primary of a
palatal
> glide.
I assure you it is alive and flourishing, and very easily made if you
remember that /j/ in Russian (and esp. in Ukrainian) is a *consonant*,
not a semi-vowel (at least under this phonetic condition). /"p;ati\j/
"fifth" and /"p;jani\j/ "drunk" sound ver-r-ry differently in their
anlaut.

-- Yitzik

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