Re: /s/ -> /h/ [was: Re: Betreft: Re: k(w)->p]

On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 raccoon@ELKNET.NET wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU]On
> > Behalf Of dirk elzinga
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 3:37 PM
> > To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
> > Subject: /s/ -> /h/ [was: Re: Betreft: Re: k(w)->p]
> >
> > There is no evidence for an intermediate voiced stage in the
> > alternation between /s/ and /h/. In fact, such a step would make
> > the change less likely. What /s/ and /h/ have in common is the
> > spreading of the vocal folds during articulation--in fact,
> > that's all an /h/ is; spread vocal folds. This spreading
> > inhibits voicing (actually, makes it impossible). The lenition
> > of /s/ to /z/ puts it on a different path whose endpoint is not
> > likely to be /h/.
>
> While I agree with you that *s did not go through *z to become h, I wonder
> how you can say that a voiced /h/ sound is impossible; it's used in Indic
> languages and even in English in words such as ahoy (though I can't tell a
> difference).
Yes. I should have been more precise. As Rob pointed out, /h/ in
Dutch and German is voiced, and in English intervocalically. The
difference is that the voiced /h/ is a different kind of segment
from an /h/--the laryngeal configuration is different, that is.
For /h/, the vocal folds are spread apart, and are not vibrating
at all. For voiced /h/, they are also spread, but not as far,
and when air passes them the Bernoulli effect causes them "flap
in the breeze" producing murmured voice.

Try this at home. Produce a nice crisp /s/ and sustain it:
[ssssss...]. Now, release the alveolar constriction *without
changing anything else*. The result will be a sustained /h/. Now
try it with /z/; the result will be a vowel, not a voiced /h/.

> Indeed, when *s becomes *z and then something else, it seems to usually
> become r, as in Latin and some of the Germanic languages.
Yes; not a voiced /h/, as one might expect if a voiced /h/ were
merely the voiced counterpart of /h/.

Dirk

--
Dirk Elzinga
dirk.elzinga@m.cc.utah.edu