Re: Representing Boreanesian (was: Re: quantity triggered vs.

BP Jonsson skrev:


>Since you are a Danish speaker I have to ask you this: would you
>consider the _st/od_ to be "the same thing" as the initial
>glottal stop?
Simple answer: No.

Detailed answer: The glottal stop/constriction in the _st/od_ is
superimposed on syllable final consonants, not in the beginning of
syllables. I say superimposed because it is not always a glottal
stop by itself. Rather, it is a very constricted laryngeal setting
of syllable final consonants. The syllable bearing the _st/od_
starts out with normal modal voicing then very rapidly changes to
creaky voicing only to end in a glottal stop. Call it "a 'glide' of
the laryngeal setting" if you will. I guess that's why the best
English translation of _st/od_ would be _glottal catch_.
Incidentally, this glottal catch is exactly how Boreanesians (my
conlang speakers) would pronounce Boreanesian words with the creaky
tone/register.

>Here in Sweden orthoepists and their ilk condemn
>the initial glottal stop as a fault, although it is quite natural
>to most speakers; after all ther is no elision in most Swedish
>varieties.  I've even heard a professional phonetician argue that
>the weak glottal stop in Swedish would be some kind of harmful
>disorder while the strong Arabic variety is just another
>consonant!  Clearly this is the old Swedish prejudice against
>Danish pronunciation <sigh>.
Danish pronciation <sigh indeed>, you can love it and hate it at the
same time. Its incredibly difficult for foreigners to master it.
Many would agree that Danish is a horrible sounding language - Danes
included. But many of the sounds are special, especially the _st/od_
and the lamino-alveolar approximant (Danish _d_). Its difficult to
avoid having tremendous fun when foreigners try to imitate Danish
sounds. Have you ever been forced by a Dane to try to say the
infamous "R/od gr/od med fl/od."?

>In German, OTOH, the glottal stop is gladly admitted as a phoneme
>and part of the standard.  Not only do most German speakers say
>[?aox di: ?andAn], they even say [feA?aen] for _Verein_; [feraen]
>and especially [feRaen] immediately give the stranger away!

Strangers are almost always given away in Denmark. 8-)

About the glottal stop, I'm almost positive that the glottal stop is
admitted as a phoneme in syllable initial position. I have seen
phonetic transcriptions of Danish in dictionaries use /?/ to mark
words with the _st/od_. E.g.: _hund_ /hun?/ "dog" vs. _hun_ /hun/
"she", _ved_ /veD?/ "know" vs. _ved_ /veD/ "by, beside". But I have
never seen the /?/ used in the beginning of words in these
transcriptions - I'm sure its assumed.

Regards,
-Kristian- 8-)