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Re: THEORY: transitivity

From:Daniel Andreasson <noldo@...>
Date:Thursday, May 27, 1999, 12:24
Nik Taylor wrote:

> Pasasgen/Mensa wrote: > > (And possibly also distinguish between verbs that > > don't have an agent, eg. "I sleep" and verbs that do.) >=20 > Isn't that the same as the intransitive/transitive distinction? =
Unless
> you're using "agent" in a different way than I am, an agent only =
exists
> in transitive sentences.
Sorry. I meant agent as a semantic roll. 'The balloon broke' or 'I freeze'. I.e. the verb expresses an event or process that isn't an action and thus doesn't have an agent. I was thinking about not allowing non-agents as subjects. (E.g. one might say=20 'Me freeze' instead of 'I freeze' or something in that direction).
> > The question is if transitive verbs should be conjugated > > as intransitive if they don't have an object. >=20 > I'd say no. You could, perhaps, use affixes for passive and > antipassive, tho. In other words, take your example "I eat food". =
The
> passive form would be "food is eaten", the anti-passive, "I eat". > Perhaps those would be conjugated as intransitive verbs, but an affix > should be used to indicate what is missing.
Hmm... That's an idea. I'll have to think about that.
> > Do you have any comments? >=20 > Interesting idea. In my Eastern, the old antipassive particle, _su_ =
has
> evolved into a transitive marker _s(u)_ (/s(@)/), used whether or not > the object is present. Eastern has evolved from ergative to > accusative. That's the closest I have now, but an earlier conlang of > mine, Tqa-Cize^ (/tTa tSi'zE/) had particles to indicate transitive =
and
> ditransitive, intransitive and stative (what you call zero-transitive)
Actually I couldn't remember the name so I made one up.=20 My books (which I now took a glance at) says 'impersonal', e.g. 'rain'.
> were indicated by no such particle being present.
Yes. That's what I'm talking about.=20 It seems I have to decide whether it should be erg or acc. Thanks for your ideas! Daniel Andreasson