Re: artlangs/auxlangs/engelangs (was Re: LCC2: Meeting our Community)

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:12:55 +0200, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
wrote:

>
>Engelangs are somewhere between artlangs and auxlangs, though not
>exactly.  They usually are designed to meet (more or less) objectively
>tested design goals.  This "seriousness" puts them in the vicinity of
>auxlangs.  But actually, they are more like artlangs.  There are usually
>many ways to tackle a problem, and just because someone has found a
>solution for design goal X, there is no reason to seek different,
>perhaps better solutions for design goal X - or pursue a completely
>different design goal Y.  Like artlangs, engelangs usually do not strive
>for world domination.
I think there is a larger overlap area between artlangs and engelangs than
one might say. Explore the meanings of 'engelang' and 'artlang' (Langmaker):

-------
engelang n. engelanger [< engineered language.] A conlang designed to
achieve pragmatic rather than artistic goals.

artlang n., v. artlanged, artlanging [< art(istic) and lang(uage).] n. A
conlang designed to be artistic and very personal; often, though, intended
for use by a fictional race. Example: "The artlang I developed for my new
book is very expressive." v. To develop an artistic language.
----------

If we put aside the fact that it is specifically stated that engelangs are
not designed to acheive artistic goals, I see no reason here why a lang
cannot be both.

I also have opinions concerning philosophical conlangs (a type of engelang
(May I call them philolangs (Not to be confused (of course) with Phillangs
(conlangs created by persons named Phil (or Phillip))(I like nested
parentheses.))?)). It seems that philosophical langs are often assumed to
have a taxonomic (usually hierarchical (analogous to my usage of
parentheses)) structure. I don't feel that should be part of the definition.
Langmaker:

----------
A philosophical language (also known as categorical language) is one built
on a philosophical, or taxonomic, structure. Philosophical languages have
close ties to logical languages, and both can be qualified as engineered
languages, or engelangs. Most conlangs created in the 17th century fall in
this category; more recent examples include Ro. Many philosophical languages
attempt to rigorously structure vocabulary based on a series of categories,
so that the make-up of the word reflects its meaning.

A common strategy in such languages is to assign categories to phonemes and
positions in a word that become more specific the further one gets into the
word. For example, a language may designate the initial phoneme /k/ for
tools or devices. Then it might specify that a following /o/ makes it
concern music so /ko/ means "musical instrument". Following consonants may
be used to specify whether it is percussion, wind, et al. This approach may
unintentionally come close to oligosynthesis, but tends to run the risk of
confusion as words with similar meanings sound similar and are often
distinguished only by one or two phonemes.

This is a traditional meaning of the name "philosophical language". Some
apply the term to languages with grammars and vocabularies based on a
philosophical idea (such as Taoism, feminism or socialism), but this usage
should be considered erroneous.
--------------

(considered erroneous? Perhaps I shouldn't use Langmaker's definitions when
presenting my arguments...) Philosophy and the categorization of things
(taxonomy) are related, but what causes them to be used almost synonymously
eludes me.

Imagine a philolang without a taxonomic lexicon:

Hypothetical philosophy/culture: The purpose of a human's existence is to
die, be buried, and fertilize the soil so plants may grow better. A virtuous
being is one that lives to the age where s/he is most massive (and so can
provide the most nutrients to the plants), and then perhaps intentionally
eats more and exercises less, and then obesity gives him/her a heart attack,
causing s/he to die. Plants are highly respected. (Philosophers may wish to
ponder this.)

Translation (meaningful morphemes left untouched, hyphenated phrases
originally one word in hypothetical conlang) of conlang text:

--------
In the 4th pentury Before-The-Arrival-Of-The-Long-Leaf-Bush, there was a
that-which-should-die-for-plants who was respectful-of-plants. She drew on a
thin-flexible-thing-which-is-made-from-the-trunk-of-a-tree a cat. Her
drawing the cat is to entering the drawing in a competition as one existing
is to dying for plants.
--------