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Re: To Christophe (Uusisuom and Esperanto)

From:D Tse <exponent@...>
Date:Thursday, April 26, 2001, 12:38
Disclaimer: There is no desire to belittle, this board only allows me to
voice my opinions. Agree or disagree at will.

I only have few things to add:

> > 'If anyone can find it inadequate for any reason than it is...' > > Well, on the basis of that logic, I find Esperanto completely inadequate. > For one thing, I think it looks ugly. For another, it appears too > much like rehashed Latin or a bastardised form of Spanish...
Woah woah! De gustibus non est disputandum! I'm sure there are many people who enjoy the Slavic aftertaste of Esperanto too!
> > Here, Christophe, is the difference between 'u' and 'y': > > 'u' pronounced like the 'u' in 'pUt' > 'y' pronounced like the 'ui' in 'sUIt' > > Just because you may have some trouble distinguishing between these two > sounds, does not automatically mean they are not two valid and distinct > sounds and that other people automatically have trouble pronouncing them. > You are assuming too much.
So there lies the point; if one person has difficulty distinguishing these sounds perhaps vowels common to more world languages should be chosen?
> > Doubled letters are not particularly difficult either - simply 'hold' the > letter for a little longer if it appears doubled than if it is > single. It's worth pointing out that the word 'kekko' has no rival such as
'keko' to complicate things, same for the word 'jaani' which has no 'jani'
> to compete against. Therefore, in theory, if you really can't pronounce
> doubled, you will be understood if you say 'keko' and 'jani' instead of > 'kekko' and 'jaani'. And in case you are wondering why use doubled letters > at all, it is because they help for one thing to distinguish between > nouns/adjectives on the one hand and verbs on the other which > never contain doubled letters.
Okay, so if "kekko" has no rival "keko" and likewise with the long vowels why does the distinction exist? This may be okay due to historical whatsits in an artlang but for an IAL it is universal comprehension, lack of ambiguity that is desired, sou desu ne?
> > 'Many of the derivations escape me' > > The reason I chose the colour purple to indicate anger is because > the colour > red is used to denote embarassment (people DO get red when they get > embarassed in France as well, n'est ce pas?). These derivations are not > 'opaque', they may simply call on the learner to adapt, just like any > language calls on its learners to make some adaptations.
Okay, I have no qualms about that, some things are just too subjective to standardise in my *opinion*.
> > 'I found more negative points than positive ones (about Uusisuom)' > > Somehow, I just can't believe that's true, however biased against Uusisuom > you might be. There are some things that Esperanto can offer that Uusisuom > cannot, but there are many things that Uusisuom can offer that Esperanto > can't. Ultimately, it comes down a lot to personal taste and preference. > > Your mention of problems with pronunciation reminds me that because of its > international quality, ANY IAL is going to have different speakers > pronouncing certain words differently. I am sure your Esperanto > is different > to a Russian's pronunciation. Only minor differences perhaps, and you can > understand each other (I hope) but the point is that you haven't made one > argument here that really 'holds water' as we say in English. > > You are at least right when you say that the real test of Uusisuom will be > the public's. As I said to another critic before, please continue to > criticise Uusisuom if it keeps you busy, it makes no odds with me. Just > promise to criticise it until there are 1,000 speakers, or if that isn't > good enough for you, please criticise it until there are 10,000 speakers. > The real test of an objector is not to criticise a project when it is new > and young but to criticise it once it has fulfilled its potential and is > great and strong. If you can criticise Uusisuom when there are 10,000 > speakers of the language throughout the globe, you will have earned my > respect for your integrity if nothing else.
I am here not to crush your project, but to outline what I think. I am sure that is the intent of some of the others on this list too. I don't think there have technically been any feathers flying, that's the way one would like it to remain. You don't have to absorb these criticisms, just as you have free will to choose or ignore the opinions of orators on their soapboxes in a public park :P I'm just an orator, and this is the public park. Imperative