Re: THEORY nouns and cases (was: Verbs derived from noun cases)

Philippe Caquant scripsit:

> I find the idea of a verb meaning for ex "to be a dog"
> unsatisfactory. Anayway, saying so just means that the
> corresponding word will behave, syntactically, like a verb.
Exactly so.

> Thus, we could have an English verb like "to
> dog", for ex: I dog, he dogs, I dogged, I have dogged,
ObIrrelevant:  English does have a verb "to dog", but it means
"to track in the manner of a dog":

	He dogs my footsteps with the incompetent zeal of fifty Watsons.
		--Lord Peter Wimsey

A better English example would be "to goad", which indeed means "to be
a goad".  Historically, a goad was only the instrument, but has been
extended to be the agent who wields the instrument as well:

	He moves the cattle with a goad.
	He is a goad.
	He goads the cattle.

> I have been a dog (is this really useful ?)
Probably not in the 1sg, but then neither is "to be dead".

> But what I mean is that, if you have a verb meaning
> "to be a dog", first this can mean several things:
> - A chinchilla is a dog (a kind-of a dog)
> - Rex is a dog (an instance of a dog)
> - He is a dog (he behaves like a dog)
In Lojban, the first two apply and the third does not: one could
say "He dog-ly behaves" or "He is a dog-ish person" (the syntax is
the same in either case).

> Then why wouldn't we have verbs like:
> - to be black (Rex has an external colour property of
> black: Rex blacks ?)
[other examples snipped]

We do, indeed, in many natlangs as well as Lojban: they are called
stative verbs, and replace adjectives e.g. in Chinese.

> - to be the son of (Rex was Lassie's son: Rex sonned
> Lassie ?)
> - to be married (Rex's master is in a particular
> social relation with somebody: Rex's master marrieds
These two are indeed transitive verbs in Lojban.

> - to be an example (Rex was an example for all dogs in
> this country: Rex exampled ?)
> - to be three (there were three dogs in the street:
> dogs threed in the street ?)
These are probably intransitive, but I'd have to look them up to be sure.

> So in the end, nearly everything could be a verb, but
> what is it good ? (sorry: everything verbables, but
> what goods it ?)
It's the way Lojban works.  All words except particles are natively
verbs, and only particular constructions give them the semantics of
English (or French) nouns, adjectives, or adverbs.  (Not that there
is an exact match:  Fr alunir, Sp. alunizar correspond to a phrase
in English: to land on the moon.)

> (Imagine for ex you have a verb meaning: to come on
> the next day [to nextdaycome]...)
A compound verb, yes.

--
"But the next day there came no dawn,           John Cowan
and the Grey Company passed on into the         jcowan@reutershealth.com
darkness of the Storm of Mordor and were        http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
lost to mortal sight; but the Dead              http://reutershealth.com
followed them.          --"The Passing of the Grey Company"

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