Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Proto-Semitic (was Re: markjjones@HOTMAIL.COM)

From:Rob Haden <magwich78@...>
Date:Thursday, March 10, 2005, 15:11
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 23:21:26 +0200, Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...>

>On Mar 8, 2005, at 10:41 PM, Rob Haden wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 20:58:23 +0100, Steven Williams >> <feurieaux@...> >> wrote: >> If there was */ts/, */dz/, and */s/, then we could say that */K/ >> became /S/ >> in Arabic (rather than merging with /S/). However, the South Arabian >> languages have both /K/ and /S/. Perhaps */s/ > /S/, */ts/ > /s/, and >> */dz/ > /z/ there. But what would cause /s/ to become /S/? > >Isn't /s/ becoming or has become /S/ in Portuguese?
I believe so, at least when it precedes a stop. For example, I've heard 'estou' "I am" pronounced [StoU].
>>>> There's a class of verbs called 's-stems', with >>>> transitive/causative, destative, or denominal >>>> meanings. However, they don't begin with s- at all, >>>> it seems; in Arabic they begin with '-, Akkadian >>>> with š-, and Hebrew with h-: > >>> We-eird... It also seems somewhat anomalous that >>> switching consonants around like that could serve a >>> concrete grammatical function. The Semitic languages >>> look more and more like some bizarre loglanging >>> experiment gone horribly awry... > >> Heh, you're telling me. :) I don't mean to sound pretentious, but I >> wonder >> if the traditional interpretation of written Akkadian is a little >> incorrect. Not only does Akkadian show |š| in the S-stems, where >> Arabic >> shows ?- and Hebrew h-, but it also has |š| in the personal pronouns: >> šu: 'he', ši: 'she' (cf. Arabic huwa 'he', hiya 'she'). So the >> question >> is, did Akkadian retain an earlier /S/ where Arabic and Hebrew did not? >> - Rob > >Or maybe it's a whole different phoneme! Something like */C/, maybe... >My notes and handouts from that class are around here *somewhere*... >Or maybe i should just break out my Semiticonlang, instead... ;-)
Perhaps. The interesting thing is, Arabic /s/ often corresponds with Hebrew /S/: e.g. Arabic sala:m vs. Hebrew shalom. I think the Akkadian cognate also has /S/. - Rob