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Re: YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Lat

From:R A Brown <ray@...>
Date:Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 19:21
caeruleancentaur wrote:
> > If my [r] is /3/,
Haven't you got [] and / / the wrong way round? doesn't that make me a rhotic American? Not if your postvocalc /r/ is really [3], it doesn't, because [3] is not a rhotic sound. It is low-mid central unrounded vowel, with no r-coloring.
> My [r] is > still there. I am under the impression that non-rhotic means no > sound where there is an [r], as in /hA:t/. If the pronunciation > is /hA:rt/ or /hA:3t/ or /hA:4t/ or even /hA:Rt/, then the speaker > is rhotic.
[hArt], [hA4t] and [hARt] are indeed rhotic, as is [hA`] or [hA:`t], with r-colored vowel. But [A3] is surely a diphthong, beginning with a low back unrounded vowel moving towards the mid-low central position. [A:3] is the same diphthong with onset vowel being held longer (a "long diphthong").
> I realize, in investigating this, that I don't see a difference > between /r/ and /3/.
[r] is strictly a trill made with the tip of the tongue, as in Italian. [3] is a vowel with no trilling of the tongue.
> Do I assume correctly that /r/ is consonantal > <red> and /3/ is vocalic <nurse>.
Phonologically both can vowels, but only [r] can be a consonant also - it depends upon the phonology of a given language. But [3] is the sound in the *non-rhotic* 'nurse' of us southern Britons. Most (all?) Merkans give it an r-coloring of some sort. (I was going to suggest [n3`s] - but I'm possibly wrong. I leave that Merkans on this list :)
> And I've long wondered how [r] has come to be the grapheme for such > variant phonemes as /r(or 4)/, /3/, /r\/, and /R/.
..and some others as well. It's to do with the way the sound has developed over time within related languages. BTW you seem to have interchanged [ ] and / / throughout. The square brackets [] denote _phonetic_ values; these are not language dependent. the slashes denote phonemes of a given language. -- Ray ================================== ================================== MAKE POVERTY HISTORY


Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>