Re: Beijing, Zhongguo, etc.
| From: | Eugene Oh <un.doing@...> |
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| Date: | Friday, August 22, 2008, 18:33 |
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On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Ollock Ackeop <ollock@...> wrote:
> Simple phonetic transcriptions:
>
> Coca Cola = ke3 kou3 ke3 le4
> Ramada = hua2 mei3 da2 (question, are there actually anglophones who say
> /ra'mejd@/ instead of /ra'mad@/?)
> Virginia = fu1 jin1 ni1 ya4 _or_ wei4 ji1 ni1 ya4 (not sure on the tones)
> Canada = jia1 na2 da4
> Spain = xi4 ban2 ya2
It isn't very accurate to use commercial names, as their nativisation
involves harmonising commercial aims etc. as well. Coca Cola would have been
kou3 ke3 kou3 le4 until someone spotted the opportunity.
Also, many names are Sinicised not by using the modern Mandarin
pronunciation. There is no fixed way of Sinicisation: different names will
be Sinicised differently in China, in Hong Kong, in Taiwan and in Singapore
(though the official press in Singapore likes to use the PRC version if
known). How the name turns out depends on a few factors, such as
1. when the name was borrowed
2. who first borrowed the name
3. that person's familiarity with methods of Sinicisation, past examples and
Middle Chinese/an alternative Chinese lect to Mandarin.
(tones make no difference.)
For example, the name Jiānádà [tɕanata] for Canada is only so pronounced in
modern Mandarin. When it was borrowed the characters were pronounced
[kænata] in the . America was borrowed as [amilikæ], subsequently formalised
to [jamilikæ] and sound-shifted to [jamejlitɕa]. Unwieldiness in Mandarin
aside, potential confusion also (as always in Chinese) leads to abbreviation
with clarification: hence Měiguó, literally "jamejlitɕa (country)" and
Měizhōu, literally "jamejlitɕa (continent)".
The name "Washington" is now Huáshèngdùn [hwaɕəŋtwən], but when borrowed it
used to be [waɕiŋtun], and still is in Cantonese. "Sweden" is Ruìdiǎn
[ɻweitjæn] but used to be [switjɛn] and still is in Hokkien (Min-nan) and
Teochew.
>
>
> Repurposed phonetic approximations:
> (these are characters that seem to have started as part of a
> transliteration
> and have now taken on an association with a particular country)
>
> 英 ying1 "England, Britain"
> 美 me3 "America" -- in two different senses*
> 法 fa3 "France"
> 德 de2 "Germany"
>
> Add guo2 to any of those and you have the name of the country. Add wen2 or
> yu3 and you get the local language (probably only yu3 or maybe hua4 for
> "America", since we speak a dialect of English).
Yīngguó [jiŋkwɔ], strictly speaking, refers only to Yīnggélán [jiŋkɜlan]
(England), of which it is an abbreviation. There is scarce awareness or
concern that Britain is not synonymous with England (for reasons partially
historic, partially apolitical). The correct name for Britain is (in full)
Dà Bùlièdiān [ta puljɛtjɛn] "Great Britain" jí [tɕi] "cum" Běi Àiěrlán [pej
ajɤɻlan] "N. Ireland" Liánhé Wāngguó [ljanh wɑŋkwɔ] and (commonly) just
Bùlièdiān, though this name is hardly ever used, perhaps only for
contrasting Britain with England.
>
>
> *I say this because it can mean "America" as in "the Americas" and
> "America"
> as in "The United States". I got to wondering how Latinos learning Chinese
> might feel since Spanish uses "América" for all of the Americas, such that
> it's polite for people from the United States to identify themselves as
> "norteamericano" or "estadounidense" ("gringo" if you want to be informal
> and kinda funny) -- yet I have yet to see the full name "The United States
> of America" used ANYWHERE in Chinese -- even in the opening ceremony to the
> Olympics (granted, we don't use the full names of ALL the countries in
> English either -- I've never seen "The United Mexican States" in a walk of
> nations -- and the Chinese announcer at the Beijing opening ceremonies
> announced China as simply "Zhongguo" rather than
> "zhong1hua2ren2min2gong1he2guo2" -- despite the English and French
> announcers used the whole name).
Zhōnghuá Rénmín Gònghéguó tends to be used in official situations, like
summits, or where a distinction is favourable against Taiwan. The name
Yǎměilìjiā is archaic except very rarely in Hong Kong or unless the
publisher has a predilection for it.
>
>
> Anyway -- to the point. Eventually, I saw a world map in Chinese and, lo
> and behold, the United States was marked as mei3guo2, while the continents
> are bei3mei3zhou1 and nan2mei3zhou1 (_north "America" continent_ and _south
> "America" continent_, respectively). There, problem solved (aside from the
> possibility that maybe one over-sensitive South American might learn
> Chinese
> and INSIST that it's politically incorrect, but I haven't heard of any
> cases
> yet).
>
> Wow, my footnote was two paragraphs. Damn.
>
As I mentioned above, the abbreviations are now proper words in themselves.
Yǎfēilìjiā [jafeilitɕa] has also now been shortened to Fēizhōu (guess
where), as has Yàxìyà [jaɕia] to Yàzhōu, etc. etc.
One curiosity that I have never figured out (not that I thought much about
it) was where the extra syllable in the Chinese name for Russia (Éluósī
[ɤlwɔs̩]) came from.
Eugene