Re: Second person/polite pronouns (fuit Re: Another Ozymandias)

Beware of much snipping!

* Benct Philip Jonsson said on 2006-07-26 16:26:46 +0200
> Sally Caves skrev:
> > But there are honorific and non honorific forms of the second
> > person, that I have unimaginatively labeled "familiar" and "formal."
>
> Schlabels schmabels.  I think that "familiar" vs. "honorific"
> are the popular terms now, while "formal" was popular in an
> earlier, more formal period.  Whatever label you use you
> still have to know what you mean by it!(*)
How about "normal" vs. "rude"? See more below.

> > Another form of the honorific in Teonaht is to address the person by
> > his title, constantly:  Does the Sir/Madam wish to examine another
> > coat?
>
> Swedish, until some forty years ago, did that, but went
> one step further, using not only Sir/Madam, but the
> persons occupational title as a word of address.
>
> One interresting aspect of this is that when the system
> eventually was abolished people started using the familiar
> second person singular pronoun _du_ to everyone.
This is what happened in Norway as well, polite _De_ lost to informal
_du_. But there is a twist: I and many with me now consider _De_ to be
directly rude! It seems to used by (though not personal experience):
* very old people when talking down to the lousy uncouth younger
  generations: "De glemte å ta av dem skoene, (unge) herre/frøken"
  Eng. You forgot to remove your shoes, (young) mister/miss
  (This also has a very uncomfortable tone of voice, clearly meant to
  be rude.)
* by the clerks at the dole-office/social-security office towards their
  unemployed/poor clients, complete with icky tone of voice.
* by the judge when annoucing a sentence/by prosecuting attorneys
  towards witnesses
* when you've forgotten to pay a bill for so long it's one step from
  going to the courts
* etc.

Basically whenever it is wished that the addressee should feel like a
bug. I don't dare use it, might earn me a fist in the face if the other
party is in the right (wrong) mood.

Hence, I call _du_ "normal and _De_ "rude".


t.

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