Re: Strange voices

En réponse à Pablo David Flores :
>I'm sketching a new language (provisionally known as Terbian)
>and trying to experiment abstractly with verb voices that are
>not conventional. Terbian is a Split-S language (if I got the
>meaning right). It marks some subjects as Agents (A) and others
>as Patients (P), with a fixed pattern for each verb.
If by "subject" you mean "Subject" (as in "subject of intransitive
sentences" :)) ), then you're right :) .


>1. subject-P verb complement-OBL
>    becomes -> complement-P APPLIC-verb-* subject-OBL
>(APPLIC = applicative, from a fixed set; * = voice operator)
>
>Example: cat-P sleeps on mat-OBL -> mat-P on-sleeps-* cat-OBL
>"The mat on-it-sleeps a cat".
Interesting. I'm planning to use a lot of applicatives in Maggel, so it's
quite interesting to me.

>This works also with A-subject verbs, though the semantics is tricky:
>
>subject-A verb object-P -> subject-P OBJECT_APPLIC-verb-* [object-OBL]
>
>Example: dog-A bites cat-P -> dog-P OBJECT_APPLIC-bites-* [cat-OBL]
>In my mind it looks as if the focus is shifted from the argument(s)
>to the verbal action itself: "The dog is the one who bites [the cat]."
Does it mean that unlike English, in Terbian transitive verbs are
mandatorily transitive? (i.e. you cannot just omit the object) I find it a
great idea! I think I'm gonna steal it for Maggel (what would be the name
for such a voice? Antipassive?)

>Does this make any sense? If so, any ideas for the name of this beast?
I think it is an antipassive, but I'm not sure, since antipassive fits
better in ergative contexts. Daniel? (hoping that I'm not confusing Daniel
and Andreas, who's the active language specialist? ;))) )

>Terbian also has a mediopassive and a generic applicative voice that
>transforms an oblique argument into a patient ("he swims under the boat"
>-> "he underswims the boat").
Interesting. I hadn't thought of that one but it's a nice one, and I had
some similar ideas for Maggel but couldn't find a way to implement them.
Thanks! You've helped me with a big problem here! (and Andrew who said that
we don't want to share our languages ;)))) )

As for a list of voices for Maggel, it has: middle, reflexive, reciprocal,
causative/factitive, a bunch of applicatives that turn an oblique argument
into a subject (they work like the causative), and thanks to your post it
now also has an antipassive (if that's the name of the beast) and a bunch
of applicatives that turn an oblique argument into an object :)) . Note the
absence of a simple passive voice ;))) .

Christophe Grandsire.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr

You need a straight mind to invent a twisted conlang.