Re: proto-romance questions
|From:||Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>|
|Date:||Friday, December 17, 1999, 18:56|
At 11:50 am +0100 16/12/99, BP Jonsson wrote:
>At 21:54 -0600 15.12.1999, J. Barefoot wrote:
>>No, I meant "m".
>>As in dormi:'re > dormie'ra >(?) /dorm~e'ra/
>Ah, but that doesn't count as a single palatalized phoneme, but as /m+j/.
>You may of course have distinctive palatalization for all consonants in
>*your* Rmc lang, if you want to! :-) My con-Rmc lang Akhelin has, because
>Rumanian has. Not quite consistent, since Rumanian palatalization probably
>is an areal influence from Slavic,
I don't think there can be any doubt about Romanian palatalization being of
Slavic influence, extending the partial palatalization of the other Romance
langs so that, as you say, all consonants have a 'hard' & 'soft'
pronunciation a la Slav.
But an isolated palatalized /m/ would be unique in the Romancelangs. In
fact in the western Romancelangs the palatalization goes in forms like
'dormio' & 'dormiunt'. The vulgar Latin pronunciation was /'dOrmo/ and
/'dOrmun/, cf. Italian 'dormo', 'dormono'. In the Iberian peninsular the
3rd person plural -un(t) was replaced by the -en(t) of the 2nd conj. so we
have: duermo, duermen - but the 'i' has gone in both forms.
The -i- must have gone at an early date, since not even Romanian shows any
palatalization here; both /'dOrmo/ and /'dOrmun/ have become just 'dorm'.
and my lang i supposed to be
>Persian-influenced. Akhelin does however have an *E > /ja/ change, so I
>thought that would make distinctive palatalization likely to arise. The
>French-inspired Romanization of Akhelin mostly indicates palatalization of
>a consonant by using different graphemes for the following vowel:
>PHONEME CV CjV
>/i/ < i: -- i
>/e/ < i, e: -- /e
>/@/ < a, e, o e \e [&]
>/u/ < u: ou you
>/o/ < u, o: o u [y]
>/a/ < a: a ya
>The Arabic-based orthography of Akhelin has a dotless Ye for /i/, a dotless
>Ye with Hamze for /e/ and [&], an optional Hamze or nothing for /@/ and
>/o/, Waw for /u/ and Alif for /a/.
> B.Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> <melroch@...>
> Anant' avanaute quettalmar! \ \
> __ ____ ____ _____________ ___ __ __ __ / /
> \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / /
> / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / /
> / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Melarocco\_ // /__/ // /__/ /
> /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine__ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\
>I neer Pityancalimeo\ \_____/ /ar/ /_atar Mercasso naan
>|| Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda cuivie aiya! ||
>"A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)
A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
[J.G. Hamann 1760]