Re: USAGE: Survey

I always gave "Celtic" a very strict meaning: "of or pertaining to the stuff
from the UK and Ireland, that I've actually seen, excluding anything
obviously British."  I don't think I had a very strong characterization of
the term, to be honest.  Presumably being involved in Irish dance and being
raised surrounded by various nick-nacks from Europe diluted the impression
of mystical Avalonish stuff.  That and actually trying to read some of that
medieval stuff (which made me glad to be a relatively *modern* history
enthusiast -- my little sister is heavy into the period between 600 and 1500
CE, warring hordes and such).  Anyway, in the Bible they're into lists, and
I'd always associated those with older cultures.  I think it'd surprise me
to see 19th century Celtic literature with lots of lists, but hey.  I don't
think I'm quite romantic enough to have my head full of visions of
Celtic-ness.

The world of Tolkien and similar sorts of things always seemed very
specifically otherworldly to me, not very much like what I knew Europe was
ever really like.  I've done reenactments and I know what life was like
before electricity and polyester and zippers, thanks much, and I like my
dreams more fairy-like and without chamber pots.  Therefore, I adore all
that kind of fiction, and don't have a strong romantic attraction to the far
Western edge of Europe (at least not on that account; a part of me really
does want to go walking through Spain and Ireland, but more for the
immediate personal history of it -- e.g. I want to visit a certain monastary
because my grandfather was a POW there...).  I like Irish dance for the way
it feels (and I don't like Welsh dance, which is just as "Celtic") when I'm
dancing.  Again, not much of a romantic.

I don't like the stereotype.  But I also take offense to various Russian
characterizations of the Baltic peoples, and am annoyed by coastal types who
make fun of Mormons and Southerners (or, for that matter, Southerners who
make fun of coastal types and Mormons, and Mormons who make fun of anyone
else).  Perhaps that's because I'm a Mormon with Irish and Baltic roots with
a ton of family in the South.  I fit a lot of stereotypes and don't fit a
lot of the others, and all of the stereotypes seem remarkably unuseful.  I
also know way more not-effeminate French people, not-forthright English
people, warm and friendly Chinese people, etc., than folks that live up to
those stereotypes.  It's like thinking everyone from California likes to
surf -- what good does it do anyone, other than the Beach Boys?

Sarah Marie Parker-Allen
lloannna@surfside.net
http://www.geocities.com/lloannna.geo
http://lloannna.blogspot.com

"I will not turn into a snake. It never helps." -- Rules for the Evil
Overlord

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Sally Caves
> Does the "Celtic" mean something to you outside of its linguistic
> eccentricities?  Does it appeal because of a wider sense of mythology,
> culture, magic, poetry, and strangeness?  I'm interested in understanding
> the aura of "celticism," whatever that is--probably something partially
> invented, egged on by Mythopoeia, Creative Anachronism and
> nineteenth-century sentimentality.  Patrick Simms-Williams of Cambridge
> derided the stereotype of the "Visionary Celt," one that is consonant with
> other ethnic stereotypes (pace!): the forthright Englishman, the
> inscrutable
> Chinaman, the effiminate Frenchman, and so forth.  The
> "visionary" Celt is a
> person of the country who lives with his sheepdogs in a world of music,
> poetry, and second sight, and can therefore be excused if he is not paying
> too much attention to the economy or the affairs of the world (a
> paraphrase
> of something PSW quotes from some godawful conference proceedings in the
---
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