Re: Pronouns in Split Ergative systems

As my lang is split-ergative, I have some thoughts on this: 
where the split happens seems to depend on how the language is structured. Omeina
splits along noun/pronoun. Since the verbal system is structured around the
notion of incorporating auxiliary verbs, these take most of the syntactic
stress. Sentences without nominal objects have special object as well as
subject markers. Since objects are marked, the subjects don't need ergative
markers.For instance:
Bere hartu dain    (Nominal object)
"I see the bear"
[see] [bear] [I:subj - it:obj]

Hartoise bere nadi    (Nominal active subject)
[bear+ergative] [see] [it:subj - I:obj]
"The bear sees me"

Bere nadi    (Pronomial object and subject)
[see] [it:subj - I:obj]
"It/he/she sees me]

Mike.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Peterson 
  To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU 
  Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:29 PM
  Subject: Re: Pronouns in Split Ergative systems


  Chris wrote:

  <<Are there any natural languages with
  a split ergative system divided like this where the split also occurs in
  the pronoun system, with pronouns referring to humans taking accusative
  marking, and pronouns referring to non humans taking ergative marking?>>

  Man, if someone has an answer to this, I want to read it.  I certainly
  can't think of an off-hand...  The only split-ergative languages I know (of)
  are split based on tense, not animacy.

  Anyway, based on what you wrote, though, a few questions:

  (1) Do pronouns take case marking in the same way as nouns?  Do they even
  work the same way as nouns?  If not, maybe the problem you posed
  wouldn't be relevant.

  (2) If animacy was important in the pronouns, could there be two sets of
  pronouns--one for humans, and one for non-humans?

  (3) Is the human/non-human distinction apparent anywhere else in the
  language?

  Anyway, though, if you wanted, say, a "normal" language where the only
  difference was case-marking, though, a dual pronoun system could evolve.
  Say you've got the following pronouns:

  1) ma
  2) li
  3) ze

  (Those are all singular.)  Then you have the cases as follows:

  Nom.: --
  Acc.: -r
  Abs.: -s
  Erg.: -n

  This'd only work if you have a marked absolutive.  Anyway, for
  humans, you'd have:

  Subjective:
  1) ma
  2) li
  3) ze

  Objective:
  1) mar
  2) lir
  3) zer

  But then with non-humans (and this gets tough: Can you have non-human
  first persons?  Let's assume for the time being you can), you'd get:

  Agentive:
  1) man
  2) lin
  2) zen

  Patientive:
  1) mas
  2) lis
  3) zes

  Then from there you can have sound changes which make all the pronouns
  really different.

  Anyway, what kind of system were you picturing?

  -David
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