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Re: Tallefkeul: tones and whatnot

From:bnathyuw <bnathyuw@...>
Date:Tuesday, August 27, 2002, 15:35
 --- "Thomas R. Wier" <trwier@...> wrote: >
Quoting bnathyuw <bnathyuw@...>:
> > > --- Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...> wrote: > > > > > And just cus a cluster 's stable in your mouth, > it > > > doesn't have to be that in the Maggelians'. My > conlangs > > > involve a number of sounds I can hardly > pronounce myself > > > (most notable is perhaps the complete palatal > series in > > > Classical Vaikin). And the Tairezans find [m] > unpronounceable > > > except when initial or followed by /p/ or /b/. > The Yargish > > > cheat by being physically unable to produce [m]. > > > > i'm still trying to work out what the tolerance > for > > clusters should be in bac. the morphology of the > language > > leads to various forms such as > > > > bca /btSa/, speaker > > adihtr /adITt4/ area of shade > > jga /dZga/ inflammable substance > > rka /4ka/ friend > > > > i'm trying to work out whether they should stay in > > that form or take the affix t(a)-/-(a)t which is > > usually used when words cannot be directly > modified > > > > tabca > > adihtrat > > tajgat > > tarka > > If the problem is simply how to deal with these > unrepentent > consonant clusters, why not use epenthetic > consonants, or > delete? That's how many natural languages deal with > illicit > syllable structure. Also, what is the functional > purpose of > t(a)-/-(a)t? If it's like a definite article, then > you have > a perfectly good precedent in French, where articles > often > help simply to provide an extra VC. >
t(a)-/-(a)t derives from the word |tat|, which i usually refer to as the neuter pronoun or the article. i mentioned it in a message a couple of weeks ago. it is used for grammatical function only and therefore has no meaning as bac modifies the meaning of words by changing their external consonants ( and final vowel ) it seemed helpful to have a way of adding an external consonant when no obvious candidate existed. for example, the initial consonant is nasalised to give the definite form of a noun : |gaj| /gadZ/ eye |gnaj| /NadZ/ the eye if there isn't a single initial consonant, the prefix |t(a)-| is used : |ark| /a4k/ pub |tnark| /na4k/ ( high register /n_0a4k/ ) the pub |rka| /4ka/ friend |tnarka| /na4ka/ the friend the treatment of foreign words depends on register |reyg| /4eg/ monarch |rneyg| /reg/ or |tnareyg| /na4eg/ or |tnata reyg| /nata 4eg/ the monarch the question is whether i should tolerate forms such as |rka|, or whether i should backform a quasiregular form in |ta-| viz |tarka| i don't know if this answers your question. i suppose you could eventually see the forms in |t(a)-/-(a)t| as the usual, and the forms which directly inflect the root as historical oddities ( as i can see the non CVC roots multiplying ), but of course that's not how it started incidentally, verbs use the affixes |P(e)-/-(e)r|, which are derived from the verb |Per|, root meaning, to be actual, but which is usually used as the existential verb or the copula bn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts