Re: Feasible Learnability as a Universal Constraint on All, even Alien, Languages

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@m...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, Tom Chappell wrote:
>
> > It's a fact that every human natlang must be learnable by an infant
> > who knows no language at all.
> ... [snip]
> > This fact actually puts non-trivial constraints on the class of all
> > possible human natlangs.  Knowing these constraints, in turn, aids
> > the learner in learning the language from the sparse data available.
> > The same is true when an adult learns an L2.
>
> ... [snip]
> > A good story would be:
> > Two linguists -- a human and a non-human -- are assigned to teach
> > each other one each of their own languages, and learn each one of the
> > other's languages.
> ... [snip]
>
> > What does anyone think?
> > Any comment welcome.
>
> Tom, I think you're onto some interesting ideas here.
>
> Remembering that most people don't find the study
> of languages (other than their L1) inherently valuable,
> if you mean the above sketch as a possible plot line for
> a novel or longer short story, you might need to find
> some way to make the protagonists more appealing to
> a  broader audience.
>
> I've always been fascinated by all aspects of learning;
> the most amazing fact is that it's possible at all.  So I
> think that any attempt, such as yours in the message
> above, to model the constraints and the resulting
> constrained behaviour in learning, must be worthy of
> serious consideration.  You've gone further than any-
> one I've seen in a lay (non-academic) context to model
> those constraints.  With regard to the constraints you
> have listed, I have two questions:
>
> (1)  Did you arrive at them a priori, or do you have
> objective evidence for them?

Neither.  I found them in some academic papers on the Web.  I'll try to give some URLs.


http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cmp-lg/pdf/9611/9611002.pdf

http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/C/C88/C88-1001.pdf

http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/P/P88/P88-1028.pdf

http://www.bic.kyoto-u.ac.jp/pathway/mami/pubs/ismb94.pdf

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:NAG9r37tE4wJ:www.genome.ad.jp/manuscripts/GIW94/Oral/GIW94O03.ps+beta-sheet+inside-outside+algorithm&hl=en



> (2)  Given that some alien lifeform may have a system
> of communication ("language") that uses different
> senses than human natlangs do. to what extent might
> this invalidate your constraints, or require their
> extension?

Dang good question. I thought of the question, but don't have an answer, so I
didn't put the question on the list. However, now that you have, I'll go ahead
and speculate.

The fact that computational biochemists, and other specialists, have been able to
profitably use, and extend, the results the computational linguists came up
with, and their extensions have then been profitably applied by the
computational linguists, tends to make me think that these results can be
generalized to languages using different organs of speech and of
speech-perception, and even languages using different senses, than human
natlangs. Don't forget that the various national sign languages all count as
human natlangs.

That the constraints might have to be somehow modified or extended to accomodate
these different senses, seems possible, or even probable, to me -- I am aware
of my layman's ignorance here.

>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>
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