Re: Etruscan and other fun?
|From:||R A Brown <ray@...>|
|Date:||Sunday, September 25, 2005, 12:12|
Michael Adams wrote:
> Etruscan a IE Anatolian lingo,
I think it has been made clear on this list that Etruscan is *not* an IE
language of any kind. Why do you suggest it is?
>hum, interesting, how did they get to Northern Italy?
Not exactly difficult. You can go overland through the Balkan peninsular
into Italy or you can sail across the Aegean sea and either up the
Adriatic or the Tyrrhenian sea, depending whether you want to land on
the east or the west coast of Italy. What's the problem?
> Bet that is story in its own right.
Not at all clear what you mean. Is this a genuine remark or is it some
kind of sarcasm, discounting all connexion between Etruscan & Asia Minor
As it has also been made clear on this list, ancient Anatolia was host
to a good many languages, some of IE origin and some quite clear _not_
of IE origin. There is, as far as I can see, no good reason why Etruscan
could not have had some connexion with some non-IE language(s) in Anatolia.
Certainly on the island of Lemnos (modern Limnos), just off the coast of
modern Turkey, an inscription has been found which bears structural
similarities with Etruscan and even, possibly, some common vocabulary.
It is also possible that the Lemnian language shares some similarities
with non-IE Anatolian languages. See:
Also the tradition of a Lydian origin of the Etruscans is at least 2 and
half thousand years old. IIRC it is first recorded by Herodotos in the
5th century BCE. Certainly in the Roman period the Lydian origin of the
Etruscans was widely accepted.
Lydian is known to us from some 50 or so inscriptions from the 4th cent
BCE. Its interpretation is enigmatic, but certain grammatical forms are
reminiscent of IE Hittite. Therefore, *as a working hypothesis* the 4th
cent language is generally regarded as an IE Anatolian language; but it
clearly has non-IE elements also and a non-IE language may well have
been spoken in this area at an earlier date.
That Etruscan is not related to IE Anatolian languages is shown by
*linguistic* criteria. There is IMNSHO no reason to discount a connexion
with one or more non-IE languages of Asia Minor.
>Sort of like how some Celts got down to
> what is turkey, forming Galatia..
You mean how in 230 BCE King Attalos of Pergamon settled those Galatai,
who had crossed into Asia Minor around 270 BCE and were roaming around
making a nuisance of themselves, among the Phrygian people to the north
of what is now Ankara? This is not exactly an unknown ploy used by kings
and other rulers throughout the ages to contains 'troublesome' populations.
The various odd glosses given by ancient writers and names found among
ancient inscriptions confirm that a language related to ancient Gallic
was used in this area until the 4th or 5th century CE. Jerome in the 4th
century CE tells us that the people around Trier (in north Gaul, now in
south-west Germany) spoke a similar language to the Galatians in Asia Minor.
We know from ancient authors that groups of Keltai & Galatai (it is
unclear whether they are alternative names for the same peoples or
whether they are two distinct but related peoples) began moving into the
Balkan area during the 4th cent BCE. That they eventually made their way
across the Bosphoros and into Asia Minor is hardly surprising.
I really do not understand the point you are trying to make.
> Me, still trying to figure out how much of Norse myth is more two cultures
> colliding, and mixing..
Eh? What's this to do with migrations into and out of Asia Minor/
Anatolia? I'll leave this for our Nordic conlangers to deal with (if
they are so minded).
> Not if they can figure out the meanings of the Linear A from Crete, it will
> be interesting.
Obviously, if Linear A can be deciphered in such a way that the majority
of scholar accept the decipherment, this will be of great interest. But
what on earth (or indeed in the universe) has that got to do with Norse
> How much of Basque is spanish or french loan words, and how much is
> Latin/Germanic loan words, or more like how much is Phonecian/Berber or
> Arabic loan words?
Eh???? Obviously there will be French & Spanish loanwords. They are the
two modern languages with extra-European usage that are in daily contact
with Basque, duh!
The loan words from Vulgar Latin are well-known. But Phonecian/Berber or
Arabic? What's the point you're trying to make?
For a sane and impartial account of Basque, see:
MAKE POVERTY HISTORY