Re: Re : Using numberless substantives

On 29 Jun 99, at 18:27, xavo@bbvnet.com wrote:

> Tem Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:33:19 +0000, "Jim Henry" <jimhenry@...>
> skribis:
>
> >> (well, in fact, I've read "claw" is "ungego" (big nail), but I don't
> >
> >Both "ungo" and "ungego" are used, but speakers might differ
> >about exactly where to draw the line.
> >
> >> find it very logical)
> >
> >Why?
>
> Well, ungego hasn't necessarily to be a big "ungo". For example, my
> ungoj are bigger than the ungegoj of my cat (and yes, I cut my nails
> from time to time).
>
> Or perhaps I've understood it bad, and Eo has not any word for "claw",
> and ungego is just used for big nails.
ungo = claw or nail
ega != granda

"-eg" is an intensifier or augmentive suffix, not just an adj meaning
"big".  "ungego" makes sense to me as meaning "a really *intense*
'ungo'", which maps more or less to English "claw".

Which just goes to show how complex comparative semantics can
get....


>
> >> But then you would be using "one" almost all the time (if you don't
> >> want to be vague)...
> >
> >Context could indicate "one" a lot of the time.
>
> "My cat smiles". How do you know whether it's one or several cats
> (apart from -s in "smiles") if nouns are numberless?
You'd  likely be talking to someone who knows you & your cat(s)
... if not, use the "one" marker.

>
> >In {gzb} I have three set suffixes corresponding to Esperanto "-aro"
> >
> >-cu ( a functional system of X)  (organaro -> nxiqw-cu)
> >
> >-daj (a group of X in one place), (arbaro -> hqun-daj )
> >
> >-zla (the whole set of X everywhere) (homaro -> max-zla)
>
> Interesting. I'll think of that for my loglang, though I can also have
> -ar- as an improductive suffix, giving its precise meaning on the
> definition of the (improductively) formed word.
>
In both cases there's a trade off to offer precision, vs. forcing
speakers to make lexical/grammatical decisions they mayn't
always want to make.

I'd suggest letting your -ar- borrowing be vague, let speakers use it
when they don't want/need the precision of other affixes.


>
>
> Saludos,
> Marcos
>


Jim Henry III
Jim.Henry@pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~jim.henry/conlang.htm
Conlang list archives (1996), {gzb}, Thauliralau, Esperanto