Re: USAGE: THEORY/USAGE: irregular English plurals (was: RE: [CONLANG] Optimum number of symbols

In a message dated 5/24/02 1:49:39 AM, ijzeren_jan@YAHOO.CO.UK writes:

>> [...]
>>
>> As for the rest of the list, _oxen_ is obsolescent, being replaced
>> by _oxes_, which leaves just man:men, woman:women, foot:feet, goose:geese,
>> tooth:teeth, mouse:mice, child:children, and, arguably, person:people,
>> as the utter irregulars among the indigenes...
>
>Arguably, indeed. I'm not a native speaker of English, but looking at this
>discussion from the sidelines I don't think "people" can be considered
>a plural
>form of "person", even if it's often used that way.
>"Person" has only one plural: "persons".
>I would argue that "people" is a singular form (plural: "peoples"), with
>a
>meaning that with the centuries shifted in the direction of a plural. Thus,
>"the people are..." can be compared with "the government are..."
>Which means, that "people" used as a plural does not have a singular form;
>if
>one wishes to explicitly express a singular meaning, "person" comes closest,
>but it's not the same thing.
Here's what my mental lexicon says:
'person', human being. plural: 'people' ('persons' in some literature)
'people', group of people, nation. plural: 'peoples'

I wouldn't just say that 'people' is often used as the plural of 'person,'
I'd say that it nearly always is, which would make it the actual plural. Any
English-speaking child will tell you "one person, two people," and will look
at you funny if you say 'persons'. Though as one ages, one learns that this
strange 'persons' is used sometimes, the basic sentiment remains. I think
this covers most English speakers, though there may be divergent dialects.
Don't flame me if I'm wrong! :-)

ObConlang: This is much simpler in Eloshtan and Kar Marinam. Eloshtan has the
word 'pe' for 'person' and 'perme' for 'people' with the meaning 'nation',
and both pluralize regularly. Kar Marinam has 'marim' (with a falling tone on
the first syllable) for the former and 'mpesy' for the latter - nouns
themselves aren't marked for number, but it can be indicated on the verb, and
these nouns receive no special treatment....

Josh Roth
http://members.aol.com/fuscian/eloshtan.html