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Doth and Doeth

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Saturday, March 12, 2005, 15:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Newton" <philip.newton@...>

> For me, some of those sentences are ungrammatical, since the "thou" > form takes specific personal endings on the verb -- I would say > "Dost/art/hast thou?" and "Dost thou allow me...".
But then there were the Quakers! :) And after them, the Vulcans!! Consider T'Pau. "Thee has..."
> Saying "Do/are/have thou" is as ungrammatical for me as "do/are/have he". > > Incidentally, those old forms make a distinction between "do" as > auxiliary verb and "do" as full verb: as an auxiliary, it's "thou > dost" /dVst/, while as a full verb, it's "thou doest" /du:@st/.
Hmmm. I'd always thought that dost and doest were pronounced alike after a certain point in the Renaissance. Intrigued. How could this be corroborated? How do we corroborate the pronunciation of "saith," though? Having spent a long time as an Episcopalian, I'd never pronounce it as /'sejiT/, but rather /sET/. But who's to say? (And
> in a style that uses "thou", I'd also use the third person singular > ending -th rather than -s, and make the same distinction: "he doth" > /dVT/ vs "he doeth" /du:@T/,
Also with doth and doeth: both of them /dVT/. Or /dAT/ for me.
> and say "he hath", "he speaketh". I might > also make a distinction between "ye" [2pl, subject] and "you" [2pl, > object]. All this is based on the language in the King James Version > of the Bible.)
We need to see it in rhyming poetry to get the pronunciation. What rhymes with doeth? :)
> I'm not sure whether you were aware of these conjugation forms for > "thou", which is why I pointed them out.
Thanks, Philip; these are worth knowing. Remi, I think your greetings rock! Sally


Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>