On Thursday 24 Feb 2005 18:41, Sally Caves wrote:
> LUNATIC SURVEY 2005, by Sally Caves
>
<snip>
> A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
> 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
> languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
>
Rik Roots (my real name). Gevey
> *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
> this survey before?
>
I can't remember filling this particular survey out before, but I've done a
few similar surveys on the list, so maybe yes.
> 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list the
> URL address.
>
http://www.kalieda.org
> 4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
>
rik at kalieda dot org
> 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
> demographic)
>
40
> 6. What is your gender?
>
Male
> 7. What is your nationality? Where do you live now?
>
English. London.
> 8. What is your native language?
>
English
> 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
>
At school: French, German. Post school: Spanish. Proficiency: poor in all.
> 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved or
> sought?
>
I have a Higher National Certificate in applied biology. No degree.
> 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what
> also makes you a conlanger?
>
Civil servant
> 13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
>
n/a
> 14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
>
28 years
> 15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
> describe your early efforts?
>
12. English relex.
> 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world?
> What was the inspiration?
>
Started learning French at school, decided I could do better than that.
> 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
> Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
> inspirations)
>
Yes
> 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before
> the Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for
> much the same reasons?
>
The older I get, the less I care what other people think of me. If people ask,
I tell them.
> 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by a
> lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
> extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into
> your confidence?
>
All I get is mild bemusement, which is a better reaction than when I tell
people I write poetry.
> *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
> tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a life,
> or is this your life? What is a life?
>
It's a hobby. <shrug>
> 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
> ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
> instrument? Do you compose music?
>
No
> 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
> ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in
> any way?
>
Maths: no. Computing: yes - amateur coding and occasionally professional web
management and design
> 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
> (painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
> story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry,
> web-designing, star-gazing or other?)
>
Poetry.
http://www.kalieda.org/poems
Pop in for a browse, when you have a moment to spare ...
> B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
>
> 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently invested
> in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical language,
> or "other." etc.
>
artlang
> 2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori (based
> on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class such as
> Semitic)?
>
a priori
> 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
> provide me at a later date with a sample of it? Is it on Langmaker's
> "neography" site?
>
Yes. No name. Yes. No.
http://www.kalieda.org/gevey/stories/babel.pdf
> 5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
> structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic, agglutinating,
> incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations,
> etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative in your
> opinion.
>
Eesh - I'm no expert, but I'll try ...
Syntactical structure: new information tends to go before the verb and old
information after, so you're more likely to meet an OVS structure than other
variations. All 6 are possible in Gevey.
Class/type: agglutinating
Innovations:
- agent and verb agree for "status" and number (singular, paucal, plural)
- the language is controlled (driven?) by conjunctions determining clause type
- relative clause follows the host clause, rarely embeds itself within it
- uses modifiers rather than adjectives/adverbs
- separate past tenses for unavoidable and avoidable future consequences
- verb types: equative, transitive, motive/spatial/temporal
- oblique object types: motive/spatial/temporal/systemic
- noun complex is separated from the stem to demonstrate the accusative
- no passive voice
Is that enough? I've no idea if any of these are "innovative" (or if other
things in the language are more innovative) - I just added them in because
they interested me at various points in the language's development.
> 7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big the
> vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your website if
> you have one?
>
Extensivity: the structure of the language is complete (apart from the
occasional tweak)
Vocabulary: just over a thousand words listed in the online lexicon
http://www.kalieda.org/gevey/lexicon.html
> 8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
> others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.
>
Gevey has a fairly extensive set of wordbuilding and compounding tools:
http://www.kalieda.org/gevey/build.html
http://www.kalieda.org/gevey/compound.html
> 3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it called?
>
Yes. Kalieda.
http://www.kalieda.org/planet/index.html
> *9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or a
> world shared by other conlangers?
>
No
> *10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
> world? on another world, etc.?)
>
Kalieda is a separate planet. The Gevey language is spoken by approximately
2.3 million people. There are cultural details in the "Teach Yourself Gevey"
section of the website - see especially Chapter 3.
http://www.kalieda.org/gevey/lesson.html
> *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
> alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
> have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?
>
Human
> 12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
> stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?
>
Short stories and translations. Apart from the Babel text there is only one
short story online at the moment:
Kros Sam-loivjarhe yuu Cohmpuun Fuec slothate
http://www.kalieda.org/gevey/stories/child01-story.html
> 13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
> you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)
>
No. Not a goal. Never tried to teach it to anyone. The "Yeach Yourself Gevey"
section on the website is more of an ongoing artistic project than a serious
attempt to create a teaching tool.
I would be surprised if anyone showed an interest in learning the language:
haven't they got their own conlang to work on?
> 14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me at
> a later date with a sample of them?
>
Only a few very short snippets. Longer ones will be posted to the website (in
the "Teach Yourself Gevey" section) in due course.
> *15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
> system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or letter
> combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I'm thinking, of course,
> of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
>
The Roman script does not deviate far from popular choices. H is used as the
digraph marker. c=/tS/, j=/dZ/, rh is a voiceless trill. The phonology is
largely 1950s insular RP (when I started, I only had a 1950s UK dictionary)
> 16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
> purpose?
>
No
> *17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
> gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan's question in December).
> Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How
> many of you have sung gibberish?
>
No
> *18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations, Babel-text,
> Relays, etc.
>
I do the occasional translation
> 19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
> building vocabulary?
>
Phonology is not a particular interest, but all the other bits appeal.
> 20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
> stick with one and develop it over years?
>
One language at a time: developed, abandoned, retrieved and revised, etc
I started a second language - Ga - last year, but it is no more than a brief
sketch at this time - something for me to work on when I retire.
http://www.kalieda.org/planet/telik/index.html
> 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
> completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired" of
> your conlang, or don't you?
>
When it works without annoying me.
> *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
>
I'd been drawing maps since I was a kid. The two activities came together
around 25 years ago.
> C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
>
> 1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be specific
> as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
>
The "how does it work" aspect fascinates me. Aesthetics has not been a strong
motivator for me: rather I tend to borrow what's available at the time.
> 2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
> invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it comes
> to Tolkien.
>
I've evolved the language away from the "euroclone" model, but that's because
new ideas from reading obscure natlang grammars have been investigated,
incorporated into the language and then left to fester rather than a
deliberate policy.
> 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
>
Not particularly
> 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
> cancel out the previous one.
>
A linguistic idea that results in unnecessarily long words or phrases tends to
get dropped from the language
> 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather, how
> unnatural do you wish to make it?
>
No interest in making Gevey deliberately unnatural. But then, is there a
definition or scale of "naturalness" in natlangs?
> 6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm
> you?
>
Relaxing
> *7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
>
Not particularly.
> 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
> purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?
>
No, and no.
> 9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical, religious,
> or incantatory terms?
>
Not me.
> *10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel ideas,
> or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?
>
Not particularly me.
> 11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most pleased
> with and are the most original to you.
>
belguu (yuu belag) - coming of age party
blajlima'huu (yuu blajlimat) - waterfall
brishnuu (yuu brishent) - wind
butsohslan - to make friends with
cuklamalhetuu (yuu cuklamalhet) - puberty
culdhoune (ye culdhount) - good, fulfilling life
glounezhliste (ye glounezhlist) - recycler, refurbisher
etc ...
> 12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
> you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don't you care?
>
Intuition
> *13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do those
> who don't think that's cheating? :)
>
Yes. I've coded my own word generator, but the final choice of word is mine.
> *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has been
> hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it seems. Can conlanging
> be considered an art? Why or why not?
>
To me it's a hobby. When I present it to others it is an act of art.
> *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
>
People who visit my website
> *16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is it
> an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
> consumers?
>
I don't see language as political, but rather a tool through which politics
can be argued.
> *17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years) about
> what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write a
> descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
>
Conlang: the art beyond the language.
> *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
>
"Miniature" and "model" both seem to indicate a replica of language, in a way
complete in itself and a representative of something much larger, but unablke
to do anything except pretend to be the real thing. I prefer a term like
"template" or "map" - the only thing stopping a conlang becoming a natlang is
a large enough community of people speaking the language, and a good template
conlang always has the *potential* to grow into a natlang (though we all know
it won't happen in reality).
> *19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina's
> suggestion in 2001)
>
No, it's a potential. An acorn that can become the oak.
> *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
> conlang can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV
> structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
> artlang(s) along these lines?
>
Mostly unsuccessful ones. Nothing formal.
> *21 What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language, if
> you think so at all? What would it take for a linguist to be fooled into
> thinking a conlang was a natural language?
>
One has (or had) a community of separate speakers. The other does not.
> *22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
> natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
> language to make it do things that are unnatural?
>
I read general grammars of languages - especially "teach yourself" books.
> *23. Can such a language function?
>
If it meets its design specifications, then is that not "function"?
> *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance
> of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
> conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
> matter?
>
Annoy them. It doesn't matter to me.
> D. THE LISTSERV
>
> 1. How did you first hear of this list?
>
Fromthe Scattered Tongues website
> 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
> Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?
>
3-4 years? Mostly continuously.
> *3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
> you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do you
> tend to lurk ?
>
I mostly lurk
> *4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
> the past decade?
>
n/a
> *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In learning
> linguistic information?
>
Very helpful for both.
> 6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of them
> on the list?
>
None. I research on the internet.
> *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
>
Yes
> *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
> and give you feedback on it?
>
No, and rarely.
> 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
> conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
>
Occasionally - but they need to have made some effort to make the language
accessible to the casual reader.
> *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
>
Occasionally
> *11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such as
> Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography,
> and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?
>
php/MySQL
I used Personal Font Maker to create the script - it was recommended on this
list, I think.
> 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
>
No
> 13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
> heard of the list?
>
No
> *14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
>
ZBB
> *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
> birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What
> improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
>
No idea
> *16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
> would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?
>
Simple and cheap video streaming. I've given very little thought to the
face/body gestures that accompany Gevey - physical gestures can carry a lot
of meaning, which is lost when dealing with the language in audio or
typological terms alone.
> *17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that you
> know of?
>
n/a
> *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
> yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is
> the CONLANG community enough?
>
Don't know.
> *19. In my 2000 on-line article
> (
http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested that
> the Internet "may provide a site that, with the impetus of competition and
> showmanship, encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff
> Salamon's article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He
> wrote that over ten years ago. Do outsiders still entertain such notions,
> do you think, about listservs like this one? Do you? To what extent has the
> list increased obsessive development in you? Would you be inventing as
> furiously as you are without the list or knowledge of other inventors?
>
> 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
> the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've met
> with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you
> answer?
>
<shrug>
> *21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
> ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
> contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
>
It's always been a specialist interest, I think.
> *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
> Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
> another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who are
> the splendid 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
> language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
> exhibited. Have we reached that time?
>
He would have participated. Yes, we have reached his nirvana.
> *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"? To
> what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered disreputable,
> "corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does it have a
> fizzle-out date? In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural
> human inclination that will stand the test of time?
>
In the individual, maybe. But in general, no.
It is a human inclination that will always be around.
> Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
> for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
> anonymous?
>
Yes. I've no shame about you identifying me.
> Thanks!
>
No probs.
> Sally Caves scaves@frontiernet.net
>
Rik