On Thursday 24 February 2005 10:41, Sally Caves wrote:
> LUNATIC SURVEY 2005, by Sally Caves
> A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
> 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
> languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
Sylvia Sotomayor, no pseudonym
Kēlen or Kélen or even Kelen or Kelenian
> *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
> this survey before?
I did this before.
> 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list the
> URL address.
I'm currently in the (stalled) process of moving my stuff from
http://home.netcom.com/~sylvia1/Kelen/kelen.html to
http://www.terjemar.net/kelen.php
> 4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
Use sylvia1 @ ix.netcom.com
> 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
> demographic)
38. I was born Sep-1-1966
> 6. What is your gender?
Female.
> 7. What is your nationality? Where do you live now?
Californian, California.
> 8. What is your native language?
English
> 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
Very rusty German, very little Spanish. In the past I studied Welsh.
> 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved or
> sought?
Bachelor's degree from Berkeley in Linguistics.
> 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what
> also makes you a conlanger?
Publisher's Field Rep. No. I conlang.
> 13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
> 14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
> 15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
> describe your early efforts?
Since I was 13 or 14 or so, around 1979. It started with a handful of names,
and a princess in a tower.
> 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world?
> What was the inspiration?
Fairy tales and Tolkien and science and science fiction.
> 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
> Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
> inspirations)
Well before I heard of the list, and around the time I heard of Tolkien.
> 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before
> the Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for
> much the same reasons?
I don't tend to bring it up in conversation, but it is not a secret, either.
> 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by a
> lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
> extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into
> your confidence?
People think it's weird because it is so intellectual/brainy, but no one has
said (to me) that it's pathological. Though I did worry about such myself and
threw out all my notes at one time or another. (Did I mention that I have the
world's lousiest functioning memory?) Once may have been in high school, but
another time would have been right after college, probably during a
depressive episode.
> *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
> tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a life,
> or is this your life? What is a life?
Nerdy, sure. Sophisticated, not really - maybe if Kelen were more complete I
could justify 'sophisticated'. I have a life, Kelen is a part of my life but
not the totality of my life. (That'd be my cats, she said facetiously.)
> 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
> ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
> instrument? Do you compose music?
The only musical talent I have is running the mp3 server and occasionally
putting together playlists that my friends have complimented me on.
> 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
> ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in
> any way?
I can do math, I can compute, I can even program. Sort of. The math skills are
rusty, though.
> 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
> (painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
> story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry,
> web-designing, star-gazing or other?)
I read a lot. I do web-design. I world-build. I have done calligraphy in the
past and still have enough of the tools of calligraphy around the house that
I am not yet comfortable saying 'I used to do calligraphy' though that is a
more accurate statement.
> B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
>
> 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently invested
> in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical language,
> or "other." etc.
artlang I suppose.
> 2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori (based
> on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class such as
> Semitic)?
a priori
> 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
> provide me at a later date with a sample of it? Is it on Langmaker's
> "neography" site?
Yes. You can see it at http://www.terjemar.net/writing.php
It's not (yet) on the langmaker site. Between that and the very old info on
Kelen in the conlang profile, I'm going to have to send an update to that
site in my copious spare time.
> 5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
> structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic, agglutinating,
> incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations,
> etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative in your
> opinion.
I have a closed class of 'relationals' instead of verbs.
LA, which asserts that an argument exists in a location or a state;
NI, which asserts that an argument is or has relocated or changed its state;
SE, which asserts that an argument is related to a source and/or a goal; and
PA, which asserts that one argument contains another.
The syntax is: Relational Object-of-Relational Everything-Else.
So, VO if you like.
> 7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big the
> vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your website if
> you have one?
The dictionary is located online at:
http://www.terjemar.net/query.php
There are several thousand words.
> 8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
> others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.
Both. I try to figure out what words would be related to what other words and
go from there. I also think about whether a concept needs to be a word or
not. For example, 'mirage' is not a single word in Kelen. Instead the concept
is denoted by the phrase 'jatarūn jawēha' or 'false seeing/vision/sight'.
> 3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it called?
Yes, it's called Terjemar.
> *9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or a
> world shared by other conlangers?
No.
> *10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
> world? on another world, etc.?)
On another world; matrilineal and matrilocal; space-faring, at least in the
past; multi-cultural.
> *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
> alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
> have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?
genetically modified human, done long enough in the past that the Keleni are
humanoid aliens. The phonology is within human range, as is the vocabulary, I
suppose. There are culture-specific words, though.
> 12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
> stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?
Stories, occasionally. Mostly adapted from existing human stories. Web info to
come on those, but http://www.terjemar.net/sarahb.php is part of one.
> 13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
> you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)
Not very well. While the range of phonology is within human capabilities, it
is outside of mine.
> 14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me at
> a later date with a sample of them?
No.
> *15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your writing
> system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or letter
> combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I'm thinking, of course,
> of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
Fairly phonemic in the romanization. See http://www.terjemar.net/writing.php
and http://www.terjemar.net/phono.php
> 16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for that
> purpose?
Nope.
> *17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
> gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan's question in December).
> Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled anyone?) How
> many of you have sung gibberish?
Nope.
> *18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations, Babel-text,
> Relays, etc.
Relays and translations.
> 19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
> building vocabulary?
Structure and vocabulary. I don't really care about phonology, except that it
has to sound nice.
> 20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
> stick with one and develop it over years?
One, but with dialects and siblings and predecessors.
> 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
> completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired" of
> your conlang, or don't you?
I need more vocabulary and a corpus of stories. Right now I am working more on
the world-building, since I figure that will help with the ecology and the
culture and therefore the vocabulary.
> *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
They evolved in tandem. You can count the princess in the tower as the
ancestor of the conworld and the handful of names (some of which are still in
use: Alre, Anenande (< Ananda), Kithje (< Geathe).) as the ancestor of the
language.
> C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
>
> 1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be specific
> as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
Lots of sonorants. A mix of shorter and longer words. Kelen has been in
development for long enough that some things just look/sound Kelen and other
things don't.
> 2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
> invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it comes
> to Tolkien.
> 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
> 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
> cancel out the previous one.
> 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather, how
> unnatural do you wish to make it?
Like I said, Kelen has to look and feel like Kelen. I follow the
change-one-thing rule often found in science fiction. My one thing is the
relationals for verbs change, and after that Kelen has to be more or less
naturalistic. Difficulty, obscurity, efficiency have all surfaced in Kelen at
some point, but none of them are goals. I want Kelen to be naturalistic and
exotic at the same time.
> 6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm
> you?
It's my artistic outlet. That can be sexy, sensual, obsessing, healing, and
harmful depending on how it interacts with the rest of my life. Being mostly
sane, conlanging does not rule my life. On the other hand, I'm filling out
this survey rather than going to work.
> *7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
Not yet. I'm still working on the ecology and culture. Then I'll know what is
obscene.
> 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
> purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?
> 9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical, religious,
> or incantatory terms?
Sure, it can be mystical and magical and spirtual and all that. It certainly
started out that way - as 14 year old fantasy wish-fulfillment. Many of the
magical terms have been lost, though, as the language has evolved. Some of
the concepts are still there, but which words mean what is still in flux.
> *10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel ideas,
> or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?
Sure, if unsuccessfully.
> 11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most pleased
> with and are the most original to you.
maxāntiē (N. anim.) sibling-spouse, blood brother (except gender neutral)
masēya (adverb) frowningly (i.e. unfortunately, hopefully not, etc.)
ŋō (number) '96' (I like that I have a short mono-morphemic word for this
number even if there is no justification for it.)
anxāelienāli (N. coll.) set of four nights, the minimum time period for a
number of legal processes (Did I mention that four is the sacred number?)
> 12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
> you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don't you care?
It's right when it's right. I can't explain it better than that.
> *13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do those
> who don't think that's cheating? :)
No, though I keep a list of unused possible roots.
> *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has been
> hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it seems. Can conlanging
> be considered an art? Why or why not?
> *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
> *16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is it
> an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
> consumers?
> *17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years) about
> what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write a
> descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
> *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
> *19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina's
> suggestion in 2001)
It is a hobby, a craft, and an art. (How are those defined, anyway?) It is an
outlet for self-expression. It doesn't need any consumers beyond the creator,
though it is gratifying to share it with others. I like Irina's suggestion
that a conlang is like a glimpse of something life-size, or even a glimpse of
something bigger than you are, but I won't argue with people who want to use
the model metaphor. I'd rather conlang than discuss conlanging.
> *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
> conlang can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV
> structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
> artlang(s) along these lines?
The whole closed class of verbs thing.
> *21 What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language, if
> you think so at all? What would it take for a linguist to be fooled into
> thinking a conlang was a natural language?
More vocabulary and more subtle grammatical details, the kind that come from
thousands of years of evolution.
> *22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
> natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
> language to make it do things that are unnatural?
I skim grammar books and study theory books like Corbett on Number and Gender
or Palmer on Mood and Modality.
> *23. Can such a language function?
> *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance
> of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
> conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
> matter?
Doesn't matter to me.
> D. THE LISTSERV
>
> 1. How did you first hear of this list?
My lamentable memory. Years ago, but I'm not sure how or when.
> 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
> Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?
Years, continuously, but mostly skimming.
> *3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
> you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do you
> tend to lurk ?
I tend to lurk, and skim. I like the chance to see what others are doing,
steal ideas, and participate in relays and translations.
> *4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
> the past decade?
> *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In learning
> linguistic information?
Some of the abstract discussions on triggers and such have helped enormously.
> 6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of them
> on the list?
I have about 6 feet of books on linguistics, and another 12 feet of grammars
and language specific books.
> *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
Not as often as I should.
> *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
> and give you feedback on it?
Sure.
> 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
> conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
Not really.
> *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
I need to send him updates!
> *11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such as
> Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, Fontography,
> and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?
> 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
No, but I have told acquaintances about the list.
> 13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
> heard of the list?
No.
> *14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
None. I tried a worldbuiling list, but it came to naught.
> *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
> birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What
> improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
Actually, I like it when all these disparate topics are on one list. It means
I only have to skim this list and not numerous others.
> *16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
> would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?
Something that would enable me to type in my script would be nice. I've saved
the messages that discuss this and will try some of the suggestions in the
future.
> *17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that you
> know of?
> *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
> yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is
> the CONLANG community enough?
It is for me. But I'm also going to Norwescon (www.norwescon.org) because the
theme is language. I also go to worldcon every year.
> *19. In my 2000 on-line article
> (
http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested that
> the Internet "may provide a site that, with the impetus of competition and
> showmanship, encourages inutile and obsessive activity"; I was quoting Jeff
> Salamon's article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He
> wrote that over ten years ago. Do outsiders still entertain such notions,
> do you think, about listservs like this one? Do you? To what extent has the
> list increased obsessive development in you? Would you be inventing as
> furiously as you are without the list or knowledge of other inventors?
> 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
> the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've met
> with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you
> answer?
It's a completely different skill.
> *21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
> ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
> contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
> *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
> Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
> another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who are
> the splendid 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
> language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
> exhibited. Have we reached that time?
> *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"? To
> what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered disreputable,
> "corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does it have a
> fizzle-out date? In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural
> human inclination that will stand the test of time?
I don't know. I take pride and comfort in the fact that conlangers on this
list are a diverse lot, with a wide range in age and country.
> Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
> for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
> anonymous?
Sure.
--
Sylvia Sotomayor
sylvia1@ix.netcom.com
kelen@ix.netcom.com
Kélen language info can be found at:
http://www.terjemar.net/kelen.php
This post may contain the following:
á (a-acute) é (e-acute) í (i-acute)
ó (o-acute) ú (u-acute) ñ (n-tilde)
áe ñarra anmárienne cí áe reharra anmárienne lá;