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Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Friday, April 22, 2005, 16:34
Hi, Jim.  I got two of these.  Is this second one different from the first?

Thanks, Sally

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Henry" <jacklongshadow@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005


> Sally Caves wrote: >> A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION: > >> 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented >> language or languages? > > Jim Henry: my main current conlang is gjax-zym-byn (/gj&'zUmbUn/). > Some languages I've worked on in the past include Thaurilarau and > Llegisia. > >> *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled >> out a version of this survey before? > > I don't think I've done this before; I'm active on CONLANG-L > only intermittently. > >> 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, >> please list the URL address. > > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/conlang.htm > >> 4. What is your email address? > > jimhenry at pobox dot com > >> 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an >> important demographic) > > 31 years > >> 6. What is your gender? > > Animate. Oh, ... male. > >> 7. What is your nationality? Where do you live now? > > American. Duluth, Georgia (near Atlanta) > >> 8. What is your native language? > > English > >> 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied >> or do you speak? > > I can read French well and ancient Greek not so well. Can't > speak either. > > Using a broader definition of "natural language", I speak > Esperanto about as fluently as English. > >> 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest >> degree achieved or sought? > > Bachelor's degree > >> 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional >> linguist? If so, what also makes you a conlanger? > > Network programmer and software tester. No formal > education in linguistics. > >> 13. If you are a student, > > no. > >> 14. How long have you been developing your invented >> language(s)? > > I think I developed my first skechy conlang in 1989, shortly > after reading Tolkien (specifically the Book of Lost Tales - > I didn't find the Silmarillion until much later). I started > work on gjax-zym-byn in February or March 1998. > >> 15. At what age did you first start inventing a >> language? Can you briefly describe your early efforts? > > I was probably 16 when I developed an Elvish language > used for names in a fantasy story I was writing. The > phonology was very Englishesque, and there was no syntax > to speak of, but the morphology was eerily similar to > Esperanto, which I had not at the time heard of. > >> 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or >> constructed world? What was the inspiration? > > Tolkien. > >> 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of >> the list or after? Before you had heard of Esperanto or >> Tolkien? (I name the two most common inspirations) > > I had developed three or four very sketchy conlangs > that were all vocabulary and no grammar between about > 1989-1995. In 1996 I discovered this list through > Jeffrey Henning's homepage. After I started studying > linguistics on my own, I developed several more naturalistic > conlangs for a world I was working on with my brother. > In early 1998 I started working on the language I now > call gjax-zym-byn. > >> 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; >> but that was before the Internet. How secret do you keep >> it from others outside this list for much the same reasons? > > I don't keep it secret as such. I often try to keep quiet > about it for fear of boring people, but when obsessed > about it I will occasionally bend my brother's ear about > the semantic or grammatical issues I'm working through. > >> 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, >> unfortunately, by a lot of psychiatric writings such >> as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what extent have you >> encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into >> your confidence? > > None, AFAIR. > >> *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This > > Yes. Not necessarily a bad thing. > >> 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic >> and musical ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you >> sing and/or play a musical instrument? Do you compose >> music? > > Yes, yes, no, and no. > >> 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic >> and mathematical ability. Are you mathematically inclined >> or inclined towards computing in any way? > > Interested in math, not very good at it. I'm a reasonably > good but not brilliant programmer. > >> 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you >> creative pleasure? (painting, drawing, sculpting, >> calligraphy, model-building, novel or story-writing, >> role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry, >> web-designing, star-gazing or other?) > > Writing fiction, mostly in English, occasionally in Esperanto, > sometimes even in gjax-zym-byn. Map-making. Collagerie. > >> B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION > >> 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are >> currently invested in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, >> lostlang, philosophical language, or "other." etc. > > Mix of artlang and loglang. Parts (the postposition system, > the conjunctions) are designed to be concise, symmetical > and thoroughly cover the possibilities with as few phonemes > as possible. The root noun set is deliberately idiosyncratic. > > >> 2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or >> a posteriori (based on an existing natural language or >> drawing from a language class such as Semitic)? > > The root vocabulary is mostly a priori, but some words > (~180 out of >700) are derived from words in Finnish, > Latin, Malaysian, English, French, Greek, Esperanto, > and a few other source languages (though often with > Volapukesque deformation to fit the phonotactics). > >> 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it >> called? Could you provide me at a later date with a sample >> of it? Is it on Langmaker's "neography" site? > > Yes; it's based on the lowercase Esperanto alphabet, > with a bunch of additional letters for phonemes > not found in Esperanto. No, I can't conveniently send > samples. I don't have a scanner. > >> 5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented >> language (syntactical structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or >> type--analytic, synthetic, agglutinating, incorporative, >> accusative, ergative, active, trigger, other, combinations, >> etc.), noting what you have done with it that is innovative >> in your opinion. > > Postpositional, agglutinating; fixed word order within phrases, > free arrangement of phrases within sentence, though OVS order is default. > >> 7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, >> now? How big the vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary >> list or taxonomy on your website if you have one? > > The dictionary contains >1400 words, about 700 root words and 700 > compounds (some included because they are unobvious or idiomatic, some > simply to give examples of how certain affixes are used). It only > lists 34 out of the 306 spacetime postpositions, but the rest are > obvious. The tab-delimited dictionary is the most up to date part of > my website, though I'm working on updating other parts. > >> 8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words >> out of the air; others build up a base of root words and >> affixes. Many do both. > > Both. I try to create a word from existing root stock > if possible, but will sometimes create new root words to replace > unweildily long compounds. Both the initial design of gjax-zym-byn > and my Esperanto writing style were influenced by Claude Piron's > _La Bona Lingvo_. > >> 3. Does a constructed world accompany your >> invention(s)? What is it called? > > Thaurilarau, Llegisia and others were designed for the Caligoi: > > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/caligo/caligo0.htm > >> *9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a >> role-playing game or a world shared by other conlangers? > > My brother and I roleplayed in the Caligoi a lot for several years, > but that period did not overlap much the the time I was working > on languages for the people of that world. > >> *10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the >> bounds of this world? on another world, etc.?) > > A completely different planet, probably in a different universe. > >> *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language >> human or alien? If alien, what features have you given >> the language to make it alien or how have you restricted >> or expanded its phonology? vocabulary? > > The speakers of Thaurilarau, Llegisia, etc. are nonhuman, > but the languages I designed for them aren't particularly alien. > >> 12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? >> prayers? history? stories? recipes? Are any of these >> exhibited on your website? > > I did the Babel text and the native creation myth in Thaurilarau. > In gjax-zym-byn I've written a great deal - > journal entries, story notes, stories, translations of several > Bible passages, and most of my development notes on the language itself; > but only a tiny proportion of all that is on my website. > Most is in paper notebooks. > >> 13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is >> this a goal for you? Have you tried to teach it to an >> intimate? a companion animal? :) > > Yes, fluency in gjax-zym-byn is my goal. I am fairly fluent in > writing and reading it, much less so in speaking it (I deliberately > made its phoneme inventory large and exotic, to stretch myself). > > gjax-zym-byn was designed for my personal use; starting in > 2000 I've been using it intermittently for my journal, especially > for recording dreams. > > >> 14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could > > No. > >> *15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably >> "phonetic" is your writing system? In other words, do >> do you use unconventional letters or letter combinations >> to represent sounds? > > The script is pretty much one-to-one phonemic, except that one > letter represents nasalization of all the vowels in the word rather > than a specific phoneme. > > However, the ASCII representation is a superset of X-convention > Esperanto using many additional digraphs with "x" and "q" to represent > phonemes not found in Esperanto. Even I have some trouble reading it, > which is partly why I've mostly been working in paper notebooks. > >> 16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented >> songs for that purpose? > > gjax-zym-byn is not euphonious enough for that, unfortunately. > >> *17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other >> reason, resort to gibberish? (This is in response to > > Me. > >> Adrian Morgan's question in December). Does it give you >> ideas for conlanging? > > Not especially. > >>(Have you ever fooled anyone?) > > Fooled anyone into thinking what? > >>How >> many of you have sung gibberish? > > Me. > >> *18. What on-line games do you play? (or >> devise?) Translations, Babel-text, Relays, etc. > > I've occasionally contributed a gjax-zym-byn version > of some short text people are rendering into their conlangs. > >> 19. Which do you prefer doing: devising >> phonology? script? structure? building vocabulary? > > All of the above, at different stages of a project. > >> 20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, >> or do you tend to stick with one and develop it over years? > > I've stuck with gjax-zym-byn longer than any previous conlang. > But I haven't worked on it or even used it continuously > for the last seven years. It's been intermittent, though I've > never gone a whole year without doing something with it. > >> 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a >> conlang can attain completion? What are your goals for >> completion? > > My goal for "completion" of gjax-zym-byn is to think fluently > in it, only rarely needing to coin new root words. > >> When do you grow "tired" of your conlang, >> or don't you? > > I didn't grow tired of the Caligoi languages so much > as get more interested in gjax-zym-byn. > >> *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld? > > My brother created the Caligoi and I started helping > him develop them years before I started seriously > developing its languages. > >> C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC: > >> 1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing >> language? Be specific as to phonology, structure, script, >> etc. > > I like imaginative case/role marker systems that don't duplicate > nominative/accusative or ergative/absolutive languages. I like > isolation and agglutination. Script: I generally prefer curves to > angles. I like splitting up semantic space in surprising ways. > >> 2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried >> to avoid in your invention? This has been an oft debated >> question, especially when it comes to Tolkien. > >> 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a >> language? > > Not for me. For gjax-zym-byn, I wanted to optimize for high > exoticity and high learnability. > >> 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This >> question needn't cancel out the previous one. > > Sort of, yes. One of the things I am most dissatisfied with about > gjax-zym-byn is how verbose it often is. I have tried different ways > to work around this without major redesign. > >> 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a >> concern? Or rather, how unnatural do you wish to make it? > > I want it to be exotic, but not so unnatural that I can't > learn to think in it. > >> 6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does >> it heal or harm you? > > An object of obsession, certainly. In fact... > > ...ok, I'm back. > > Writing my journal in gjax-zym-byn, I find I can sometimes be more > honest with myself than when writing in English. > >> *7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary >> of obscenities? > > No. > >> 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging >> fulfill a spiritual purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did >> it ever start out that way? > > I use gjax-zym-byn for prayer, though not nearly as much as English > and Esperanto. > >> 9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of >> magical, religious, or incantatory terms? > > gjax-zym-byn has a good basic theological vocabulary, but I would > hesitate to call it "rich" yet. > > Thaurilarau had some interesting terminology for concepts > in the religion of its speakers. > >> *10. How many of you have striven to invent words that >> express novel ideas, or are not expressed in any natural >> language that you know? > > Yes, that's one of my favorite aspects of conlanging. > >> 11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you >> are most pleased with and are the most original to you. > > {keq'pax} /k@'p&/: happy bewilderment. This is a mutation > of an Englishesque word my brother coined, "kamestra". > > {pwiqm} /pwIm/: liquid water. Not original conceptually, but I like > the onomatopoeic quality. > > {geq'diqm} /g@'dIm/: a wake-sleep cycle measured from one waking to > the next. > >> 12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its >> meaning? How much do you labor at fitting a sound to its >> sense? Or don't you care? > >> *13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build >> vocabulary? Do those who don't think that's cheating? :) > > I used scripts to generate random words for some languages, but found > the results unsatisfactory. In gjax-zym-byn every word has been > hand-crafted, sometimes adapting a foreign word to gzb phonotactics, > more often from scratch. I tend to reuse certain phonaesthemes, so > words in /pw/ are apt to involve something pleasant and words in /G/ > or /q/ may be something unpleasant or dangerous, but this isn't a > classificational language like Ro. > > If someone matches randomly generated words to a preexisting word-list > (one they didn't create and haven't hand-edited much if any) > I suppose I would consider that cheating, as being a kind of relex. > >> *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your >> mind? This has been hotly debated, so the question is > > All of the above. > >> not as weird as it seems. Can conlanging be considered an >> art? Why or why not? > >> *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers? > > If the language itself is the work of art, then only those who (to > some extent) learn it could be considered its consumers. So most > conlangs would have no consumers. But a well-designed *presentation* > of the language (reference grammar or graduated lessons) can also be a > work of art; any such is likely to have a number of other conlangers > as its consumers. > >> *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors >> "miniature" or "model"? > > Those terms fit some conlangs very well: my own Llegisia, for > instance. A more fully developed conlang is no longer just > a model, though. > >> *19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something >> lifesize? (Irina's suggestion in 2001) > > Depends on the conlang, I reckon. Thaurilarau (or my web presentation > of it) would fit. > >> *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately >> about what a conlang can do that most natural languages >> don't (such as produce OSV structure, or eradicate verbs) >> What experiments have you made with your artlang(s) along >> these lines? > > gjax-zym-byn has an open-ended set of postpositions. It has verbs, > but many sentences consist of only postpositional phrases with no verb. > >> *21 What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a >> natural language, if you think so at all? What would it > > Its history, of course. Some conlangs might be well-developed and > naturalistic enough that they have no difference from natlangs per se > except their short history; most of course are too small, too > regular, or too unnatural to be mistaken for a naturally evolved > language, but these are not inherent properties of conlangs. > >> *22. How much do you study other languages in order to >> discover what is natural in language? Or to discover how >> you can stretch the boundaries of language to make it do >> things that are unnatural? > > I've studied the first elements of many languages. Lately I've been > trying to find out more about postpositional languages, especially OVS > and OSV languages, to validate or correct my design decisions > w.r.t. gjax-zym-byn. > >> *23. Can such a language function? > > I don't know yet. Sometimes I can write in gjax-zym-byn fast enough > that I hope I will be thinking fluently in it in just a few more > months. Other times I despair, thinking I must have included some > hopelessly unnatural feature that I am trying futilely to learn to > use. > >> *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate >> about the relevance of conlanging to linguistic study. We >> all know that linguistics can aid conlangers, but in what >> ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it matter? > > It seems to me that one could study the limits of the human linguistic > capacity by designing almost but not quite naturalistic conlangs and > then seeing whether people can in fact learn to think in them and > speak them fluently. That way, you could distinguish between > universals of natural language evolution and universals of the way the > human mind/brain work. The Lojban project seems sort of like this, > and gjax-zym-byn is similar in some ways; but these hardly seem like > true scientific experiments since we're changing many variables at > once and have no control groups. A real experiment would involve two > or more conlangs identical except for the one feature whose > naturalness we're trying to determine; one might be a regularized > relex of some natlang unfamiliar to the experimental subjects, the > other would be the same but for one weird feature. The learners would > not pick which conlang to learn or know whether they're attempting > something most linguists think is impossible. > >> D. THE LISTSERV > >> 1. How did you first hear of this list? > > From Jeffrey Henning's homepage. > >> 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other >> related listservs? Continuously? Infrequently? Off and >> on? More off than on and vice versa? > > Intermittently (more off than on) since 1996. > >> *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your >> language? In learning linguistic information? > > It was pretty helpful in the early stages of gjax-zym-byn, > and invaluable in my linguistic education. > >> *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers? > > Yes. > >> *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested >> in your conlang and give you feedback on it? > > Sometimes, not often. > >> 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit >> of someone's conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase? > > I learned Toki Pona pretty thoroughly last summer, but quit using it > during a long illnesss in the fall. > >> *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site? > > Occasionally. > >> *11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase > > HTML. > >> 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list? > > I mentioned it to a linguistics-inclined sf author I met > at Worldcon last year; I don't think she showed up here, > but I'm not sure because I went nomail myself shortly after. > >> 13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but >> who has never heard of the list? > > I've heard of someone - a friend of a friend of my brother's > - but haven't met him yet. > >> *14. What other lists do you frequent related to >> conlanging? > > I used to be active on the Toki Pona list. Plus various lists > relating to Esperanto, of course. I subscribed to use_your_conlang > but it's been mostly inactive. > >> *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I >> see it giving birth to alternate lists like Conworld, >> Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What improves the present >> list and its helpfulness or entertainment value? > > The schisming of the list into more specialized lists may not be a > good thing. The smaller lists tend to lack enough subscribers to keep > steady conversation going. > >> *16. What Internet technology would you most like to > > I'm still figuring out how to represent gjax-zym-byn satisfactorily in > Unicode. > >> *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a >> community. And yet so many of us seem to want the world to >> know of it and respect it. Is the CONLANG community enough? > > I would like to be sure that everyone who does conlanging knows > about the list, even if they then choose not to subscribe. > >> *19. ..... >> To what extent has >> the list increased obsessive development in you? Would you >> be inventing as furiously as you are without the list or >> knowledge of other inventors? > > Some of my most active periods of work on gjax-zym-byn have been in > during periods when I wasn't subscribed to CONLANG. But > the list has been helpful in pushing me to flesh out aspects > of the language that I might otherwise have overlooked. > >> 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your >> linguistic talents to the learning and speaking of natural >> languages (a common response I've met with and aimed >> at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would >> you answer? > > I don't see it as either/or. The time I spend conlanging is taken > away from reading fiction, rather than from studying Greek. But I > don't think I've gotten that response from anybody yet. > >> *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He >> writes in "A Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly >> ever show their works to one another, so none of them know >> who are the geniuses at the game, or who are the splendid >> 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time >> language invention will become respectable, and such things >> can be exhibited. Have we reached that time? > > I reckon so. The audience for conlangs will always be small > compared to the audience for narrative fiction, but it's large > enough now to make it worthwhile to spend time editing one's > grammar, lexicon etc. to make it fit for public > consumption. > >> *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make >> conlanging "banal"? To what extent is it exciting because >> it is a) considered disreputable, "corny" or "mad," or b) >> largely unknown to the world? Does it have a fizzle-out >> date? In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural >> human inclination that will stand the test of time? > > I find that, over time, I am less likely to be interested in reading > through another conlanger's entire online grammar. This is probably > because in many cases I've seen most or all the features before, in > natlangs or other conlangs. But then I discover something like > Ithkuil and my faith in humanity is restored. :) > >> Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this >> material of yours for my academic work on conlanging? First >> name? last name? pseudonym? anonymous? > > Yes, you may use my name. >

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Sally Caves <scaves@...>