Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005

> A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
> 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or languages?
> Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
Sai Emrys, born/legal Ilya Starikov. My only actual conlang so far was
temporarily named Saigrok (for obvious reasons), pending a
language-internal name, but it's pretty much completely set aisde in
favor of top-down theory for now.

> *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version of
> this survey before?
New.

> 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list the
> URL address.
No, but I run LiveJournal communities
http://www.livejournal.com/~conlangs and
http://www.livejournal.com/~conlangs_decal . The former has most of my
(theoretical) writings about conlangs.

> 4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
conlangs at saizai dotcom

> 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
 demographic)

23.

> 6. What is your gender?
Male. Though I've been told I'm not a very good fit for "male" in some
ways, gender (vs sex) wise.

> 7. What is your nationality?  Where do you live now?
American born (NY), live in CA. Parents both Russian immigrants.

> 8. What is your native language?
English & (mostly illiterate) Russian

> 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
Spanish, French, Arabic, Japanese, (Mandarin) Chinese, American Sign
language to significant degrees; various other languages in
travel-speak amounts.

> 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved or sought?
Am currently 3rd year in college for my first bachelor's.

> 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so, what also
> makes you a conlanger?
Does student count? :-P

I also teach a class on conlangs, but I'm not getting paid for it, so
I suppose that's not "professional".

> 13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
Cognitive Science, no particular emphasis. Was considering a double
major with music, but haven't the funding/time... *pout*

> 14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
~7 years

> 15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you briefly
> describe your early efforts?
15 or so? Not sure exactly. Pretty brief forays that all led me to get
completely sidetracked quite quickly in by the desire to do things
non-arbitrarily (i.e. not just by aesthetics), which is what I've been
thinking about since. Many of the same ideas are still in the works,
e.g. nonlinear language.

> 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed world? What
> was the inspiration?
*shrug* No idea what first put me on to it. Not Tolkein, sorry. ;-)

> 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after? Before
> you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most common
> inspirations)
Only heard of this list a few months ago; had started my own (the LJ
community above) in 2001. Knew about Tolkein and Esperanto etc., but
mainly because I am interested in theory, and therefore it's hard to
say what comes before what when I'm not turning it into an actual
grammar / vocab / etc. Not "inspired" by them, though, just used them
as interesting reference points.

> 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was before the
> Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this list for much
> the same reasons?
*laugh* Given that my name is on the top of Google if you search for
"conlangs" ('cause of the LJ community), not at all. ;-) Never have
been, and I utterly reject the idea that I should. Anyone who knows me
probably also knows that I'm a conlanger, as it comes up often enough
(if simply 'cause my class is taking up a significant amount of my
time and thoughtspace recently).

Then again, I don't have much concept of personal shame / shyness for
other things either, so enh.

> 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by a lot
> of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what extent have
> you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken into your
> confidence?
See above - the latter phrase doesn't apply to me.

I have gotten responses - mainly by professional linguists, but also
by laypeople - of it being frivolous and uninteresting, but not that
it was *pathological*.

Then again, I live in the Bay Area, and there ain't much that people
around here *would* call pathological outside of actually hurting
other people / yourself. ;-)

> *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets tossed
> around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a life, or is
> this your life? What is a life?
Perhaps. So?

Most of what I do is "nerdy" (or to use the more accurate version
locally, "geeky"). Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. ;-) So I
reject the assumptions of the latter three questions; my answer is
"mu".

> 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical ability.
> Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical instrument? Do
> you compose music?
I've been playing mainly classical piano for about 17 years now, and
flute for ~1. Am semi-professional grade; have actually been paid for
it on rare occasion, and done a couple concerts (one was as
harpsichord soloist). I don't practice nearly enough (read: "hardly
ever") to actually do it for a living, though, and I'm not as good as
my conservatory-track friends of the same age. ;-)

> 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and mathematical
> ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined towards computing in any
> way?
That too. Was several years ahead of schedule with math throughout
high school. Stopped at BC Calculus (= just prior to multivariable
calculus) in my 10th year in HS. Haven't taken any since other than
discrete math; never really liked it.

I do program, but again, that's something I've done as an occasional
hobby more than as a major; I do well in CS classes, but have no
desire to do it for a living or a degree.

> 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
> (painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
> story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry,
> web-designing, star-gazing or other?)
I have been known to randomly start making things because the whim
takes me, though I've never done so before. Examples of this include
my cloak (lined, hand-sewn at first, a year later gone over with with
a machine), staff, ritual-purpose tanto (the prior two made mainly
with my Leatherman, and some finishing work by more professional
tools), etc.

Have been known to do RPGs in the past (on both sides of the screen),
but do not any longer.

Do write poetry from time to time - it's available from my
LiveJournal, if you're curious.

Have little skill with drawing or calligraphy, though.

> B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
Most of these don't apply, since I am more into theory than practice
right now, per above. Adapting what does fit...

> 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently invested
> in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang, philosophical language,
> or "other." etc.
Combination of engineered and art; "ideal" for some notion of ideal
that isn't based on pimping it to people actually in the world now
(like an auxlang does) but rather for use as someone's L1. Avoids the
issues of crossculturalism and all that flamewar fodder. ;-)

> 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
> provide me at a later date with a sample of it?  Is it on Langmaker's
> "neography" site?
Not a script, but an idea for one - nonlinear, as mentioned above.
Weblike. Still thinking out the topdown; don't have writing samples.

> 3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it called?
Er... 8, 3, 9? Is this a new counting system in your conlang? :-P

> *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien?
Human, but as mentioned above, I have no particular interest in having
it be appealing to learn as an L2, in ways that would make it worse as
an L1.

> 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can attain
> completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow "tired" of
> your conlang, or don't you?
*laugh* What makes a "complete" life? ;-)

> *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
Mu. The ideas did. ;-)

> C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
> 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
Obscurity, perhaps, as a feature of deliberate encryption, if it
doesn't hamper those in the know.

> 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn't
> cancel out the previous one.
For some values of efficiency, yes.

> 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather, how
> unnatural do you wish to make it?
Mu. I don't care if it's "natural", either way. Human-usable, yes, but
that has little to do with making it look/act like existing languages.

> 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a spiritual
> purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that way?
Mm, perhaps. Have contemplated making qabbalism a feature; not sure
how to design it. Certainly interesting to use conlanging as a sort of
meditative practice, to figure out how you think.

> *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind?
All of the above; I disagree with the underlying assumption that there
is a disjoint between the three.

> *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
What does that have to do with art? :-P

> *16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is it
> an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its consumers?
*looks around* Sorry, no 10-foot poles nearby. I'll have to skip this one.

> *17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years) about
> what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write a
> descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
An intentionally created / modified language. Yes, that includes brand
names, Korean, etc; it's a matter of degree.

> *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
I disagree with the assumptions they make as applied in general; they
can be accurate for some folks' interests / goals, but not mine.

> *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a conlang
> can do that most natural languages don't (such as produce OSV structure, or
> eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your artlang(s) along
> these lines?
Have come up with several ... unusual ideas. Haven't implemented any
of them yet, though.

> *22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
> natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries of
> language to make it do things that are unnatural?
Er... n/a again because of the assumptions. I like drawing from my
knowledge of natlangs (see above), but that's not "in order to", and
certainly not because I care about what's "natural". :-P

Stretch the boundaries of language *per se*, definitely yes. But
again, naturalness is irrelevant to me.

> *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the relevance of
> conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that linguistics can aid
> conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid linguists? Or does it
> matter?
*laugh* I think I've expressed my views pretty well in those threads. ;-)

> D. THE LISTSERV
> 1. How did you first hear of this list?
David Peterson mentioned it; I found him when I was doing prep
research for my conlangs class at UCB.

> 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related listservs?
> Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and vice versa?
Since then - ~December 2004.

However, have been "on" (in the sense that I made & mod it) the LJ
conlangs community since 2001. Somewhat lower profile in recent
months, but am still active.

(Can you be "on" a list that you created? Feels weird to me to say that.)

> *4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over the
> past decade?
Don't know about this one, but FWIW about my LJ one: it started pretty
slowly, but has steadily increased in size - 'specially around
2002-2004 - and is now at ~400 members. Not nearly as active as this
list, but that's okay; it's still a thriving community. Definitely
more diversity as we've increased in size, and more folk than just me
being the major contributing people who post the majority of
interesting stuff.

> *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In learning
> linguistic information?
Useful for when I've asked linguistic questions; several good
references that helped me look things up. Also nice to get feedback on
my ideas, though I haven't yet posted any of the odder ones here...

> 6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of them
> on the list?
Everything that UCB owns about conlangs. ;-) They're sitting next to
my desk, on indefinitely renewable loan. Yay libraries!

Also got Describing Morphosyntax on David Peterson's recommendation,
and it is indeed teh pwnz0r.

> *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
Occasionally; mainly for ideas or more recently for examples to use in class.

> *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang and
> give you feedback on it?
Not really. I've gotten excellent responses when I ask about *others'*
conlangs, and sometimes when I've posted about general linguistic
ideas, but not so much on my own stuff. *shrug*

St. Francis, ne?

> 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone's
> conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
Not as such; have done so implicitly from doing research, though.

> *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning's Langmaker.com site?
On occasion. Good source.

> 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
Er, if you count listing it as a resource for my class, then yes.

> *14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
LJ Conlangs. ;-)

> *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving birth
> to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc. What improves
> the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
For me: theoretical discussion of features and implementations thereof
that get beyond "this is how *I* do it" to "this is a generic template
of how one might do it". Or even better, real discussion about unusual
features that give *new ideas* rather than rehashing known ones.

> *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And yet
> so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it. Is the
> CONLANG community enough?
"Enough"?

> *19. In my 2000 on-line article [...]
This list does not affect the pace of my development much if at all. I
would be doing the same things with or without it (or the LJ one for
that matter); they're mainly composed of ideas in my head.

> 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to the
> learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I've met with
> and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would you answer?
That I already know nine, so you're barking up the wrong tree. ;-)

> *21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
> ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
> contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
Enh, I doubt it has much to do with that. I haven't noticed any affect
of the "contemporary world" - as in the-world-in-general - on this
aspect of my life at all. But as I mentioned above, I am often a
bit... apart from the world around me, and do things regardless of
whether it's "open" or "closed" to them. ;-)

> *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
> Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to one
> another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or who are
> the splendid 'primitives'." He suggests that perhaps in a later time
> language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
> exhibited. Have we reached that time?
I don't know. If you mean in the sociological sense, I wouldn't know
as I pay little attention to that. If you mean in the personal sense,
then obviously yes, for me.

But then, I might well have said the same thing in his time, too, had
I been alive then. :-P

> *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"? To
> what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered disreputable, "corny"
> or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does it have a fizzle-out
> date?  In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural human
> inclination that will stand the test of time?
Not at all. My own interest in it is in pushing boundaries and doing
innovative things with language, so as far as that goes, I suppose
that a larger population would make the S:N ratio for my interest go
down (since the influx would probably be more composed of people for
whom it is a fad or something they don't get into deeply enough to do
things that *I* would find interesting). But perhaps I'm wrong on
that.

Either way, I'm not against it going mainstream. Hell, I'm about as
active a proponent of this happening as I can be, short of having the
power to do more. ;-)

> Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours for
> my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym? anonymous?
If you ask me in specific about what you want to use. I don't like
making blanket permissions.

 - Sai