Re: LUNATIC SURVEY: 2005
| From: | Michael Potter <mhpotter@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Friday, February 25, 2005, 5:39 |
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Sally Caves wrote:
> LUNATIC SURVEY 2005, by Sally Caves
I haven't posted in a while, so this is my return.
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> A. PROFESSION, DEMOGRAPHICS, INCLINATION:
>
> 1. Who are you, and what is the name of your invented language or
> languages? Pseudonyms allowed. (Are you using one? asked "Sally Caves")
I am Michael Potter (and that is my real name), and I have invented the
languages called Suvile, Tutèlya, and Andan, as well as 4 others a long
time ago that were never named.
> *2. Are you new to the Lunatic Survey or have you filled out a version
> of this survey before?
I did a survey about a year ago, but it wasn't this one.
> 3. Do you have a website for you language/world(s)? If so, please list
> the URL address.
I have no website yet.
> 4. What is your email address? name at hostsite dot whatever.
My address is [mhpotter at bellsouth dot net].
> 5. What is your age? (vague answers allowed, but it is an important
> demographic)
21
> 6. What is your gender?
Male
> 7. What is your nationality? Where do you live now?
I live just outside Chattanooga, TN, USA, where I was born. I am American.
> 8. What is your native language?
English (US Southern, to be more specific)
> 9. What natural languages foreign to you have you studied or do you speak?
Spanish and some French (studied in school), Latin (studied at home). I
can't speak any of them very well.
> 10. What is your level of education? i.e., your highest degree achieved
> or sought?
High school
> 11. What is your profession? Are you a professional linguist? If so,
> what also makes you a conlanger?
I fix computers for a living, and I have no formal lingustics experience.
> 13. If you are a student, what is your major or your area of study?
n/a
> 14. How long have you been developing your invented language(s)?
A little over 2 years.
> 15. At what age did you first start inventing a language? Can you
> briefly describe your early efforts?
I was 16. I don't remember much about my early conlangs, and I've
deleted them from my computer.
> 16. What drew you to start inventing a language and/or constructed
> world? What was the inspiration?
A post on a web forum had a link to Mark Rosenfelder's Language
Construction Kit. I read it, and I was hooked.
> 17. Did you start inventing before you had heard of the list or after?
> Before you had heard of Esperanto or Tolkien? (I name the two most
> common inspirations)
I didn't know of the list until after I started. I had heard of
Esperanto & Tolkien, but nothing more.
> 18. Tolkien calls it a "shy art" and a "secret vice"; but that was
> before the Internet. How secret do you keep it from others outside this
> list for much the same reasons?
I don't keep it a secret, but I've never been in a situation where I
thought it needed to be said.
> 19. Yaguello has called it "pathological," influenced, unfortunately, by
> a lot of psychiatric writings such as _Le Schizo et la langue_. To what
> extent have you encountered such reactions by outsiders you had taken
> into your confidence?
The few people that I have told don't really seem to care. :)
> *20. Do you consider it nerdy to be doing this? This is a term that gets
> tossed around a lot. Or actually sophisticated? Do you need to get a
> life, or is this your life? What is a life?
"What is a life?" is not a question I can answer. I don't consider this
as my life, but only one part of my life. I do think it is what would be
called "nerdy", in much the same way as computers or role-playing games.
> 21. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and musical
> ability. Are you musically inclined? Do you sing and/or play a musical
> instrument? Do you compose music?
I'm learning to play the guitar, and I can sing if I try. I've never had
lessons for either, though.
> 22. There has been a connection noted between linguistic and
> mathematical ability. Are you mathematically inclined or inclined
> towards computing in any way?
I have always loved math, and my abilities have given me a very local
kind of fame. I also love working with computers, and taught myself how
to use, repair, and program them.
> 23. What other passions do you pursue that give you creative pleasure?
> (painting, drawing, sculpting, calligraphy, model-building, novel or
> story-writing, role-playing games, map-making, book-making, poetry,
> web-designing, star-gazing or other?)
I am an avid coin collector, and I want to be a writer, but I can never
finish what I start.
>
> B. FEATURES OF YOUR INVENTION
>
> 1. Pick the best term for the invented language you are currently
> invested in: auxlang, artlang, engelang, loglang, lostlang,
> philosophical language, or "other." etc.
Artlang, for all three of them.
> 2. Is your conlang a priori (devised from scratch) or a posteriori
> (based on an existing natural language or drawing from a language class
> such as Semitic)?
All three (Suvile, Tutelya, Andan) are a priori, but Suvile has a lot of
loans from IE languages.
> 4. Do you have a script for your conlang? What is it called? Could you
> provide me at a later date with a sample of it? Is it on Langmaker's
> "neography" site?
Suvile uses a script I made called Raguse. It exists only as a sketch
and a half-finished Metafont file right now.
> 5. Briefly describe the outlines of your invented language (syntactical
> structure--VO, OV, etc.; class or type--analytic, synthetic,
> agglutinating, incorporative, accusative, ergative, active, trigger,
> other, combinations, etc.), noting what you have done with it that is
> innovative in your opinion.
Suvile (the only one with a well-defined structure) is an agglutinating
language with VSO word order and an accusative case system. My favorite
feature is the ablaut system for word classes.
(Where's #6?)
> 7. How extensive would you say your invented language is, now? How big
> the vocabulary? Do you provide a vocabulary list or taxonomy on your
> website if you have one?
Suvile is a fully functional language. The phonology is fixed, as is
most of the grammar. There are about 1200 words, not including
inflections, but I don't have an updated vocabulary list. The other two
are still in the planning stages.
> 8. How do you build vocabulary? Some people pull words out of the air;
> others build up a base of root words and affixes. Many do both.
I mostly make up roots, but I try to derive words using the language's
current word stock.
> 3. Does a constructed world accompany your invention(s)? What is it called?
All 3 languages are intended to be spoken by inhabitants of the conworld
Idzon.
> *9. Has your language and conworld ever served in a role-playing game or
> a world shared by other conlangers?
No
> *10. Briefly describe your conculture (is it within the bounds of this
> world? on another world, etc.?)
>
> *11. Are the beings who speak your invented language human or alien? If
> alien, what features have you given the language to make it alien or how
> have you restricted or expanded its phonology? vocabulary?
(Answering both of these together)
The speakers of Suvile are human, but they live on another planet. They
are technologically equivalent to the early 19th century. Socially, they
are very much like normal humans from Earth. And politically they are
somewhat similar to present-day Europe.
> 12. What do you write in it? Poems? chants? lullabyes? prayers? history?
> stories? recipes? Are any of these exhibited on your website?
Suvile is intended to be a lingua franca, so it could be used to write
any of the above. However, I am mostly interested in history, both
factual and fictional.
I have no website yet.
> 13. Can you speak your conlang? Are you fluent in it? Is this a goal for
> you? Have you tried to teach it to an intimate? a companion animal? :)
I can speak Suvile haltingly, which is better than anyone else. :)
I have told my brother a few words, but he doesn't really care much for
the whole idea.
> 14. Have you made any soundbytes of your language? Could you provide me
> at a later date with a sample of them?
I have no recordings, and I don't have the equipment to make them yet.
When I do (and I get a website), they will be online.
> *15. If you use Roman script, how recognizably "phonetic" is your
> writing system? In other words, do you use unconventional letters or
> letter combinations to represent sounds? Why or why not? I’m thinking,
> of course, of Etabnannery, for those who remember it.
Romanization of Suvile is simple, though I do use thorn (þ), edh (ð),
ash (æ), and (when available) s and z with an acute mark. I also use the
digraphs th, dh, ae, sh, zh, if the special characters can't be used.
The only other possible complication is that I use |j| for [dZ] and |y|
for [j].
> 16. How many of you sing in your language and have invented songs for
> that purpose?
I can't even sing or write songs in English! :)
> *17. How many of you, for entertainment or any other reason, resort to
> gibberish? (This is in response to Adrian Morgan’s question in
> December). Does it give you ideas for conlanging? (Have you ever fooled
> anyone?) How many of you have sung gibberish?
The name "Suvile" actually was gibberish. I was making up words in my
head late one night, and there it was. I don't do that anymore.
> *18. What on-line games do you play? (or devise?) Translations,
> Babel-text, Relays, etc.
I do translations whenever I can, and I have a recent Babel text.
> 19. Which do you prefer doing: devising phonology? script? structure?
> building vocabulary?
I actually like the whole concept of creating a speakable language from
nothing. Mostly I like inventing phonologies and grammar.
> 20. Do you start and stop several different conlangs, or do you tend to
> stick with one and develop it over years?
I used to start and stop, but now I've committed myself to the long
haul, so to speak.
> 21. What do you think makes a "complete" conlang, if a conlang can
> attain completion? What are your goals for completion? When do you grow
> "tired" of your conlang, or don’t you?
I don't think a language can ever be complete, constructed or natural.
The closest to completion that I would consider Suvile is when I can
translate or write whatever I want without having to make up words or
grammatical features.
> *22. Which came first: the conlang or the conworld?
In my case, the conlang, then the conworld, then the other conlangs.
> C. PHILOSOPHY AND AESTHETIC:
>
> 1. What aesthetic features do you value in inventing language? Be
> specific as to phonology, structure, script, etc.
>
> 2. What commonly applied aesthetics have you ever tried to avoid in your
> invention? This has been an oft debated question, especially when it
> comes to Tolkien.
(Answered together)
It's hard to describe what I like, and easier to describe what I don't
like, but I'll try my best.
Phonology: I don't like "gutteral" sounds, like those in Arabic. I like
a lot of the uncommon sounds in English like [T D W]. I don't care much
for long strings of consonants or vowels.
Structure: I like simplicity over complexity, but I don't like things
too simple. I don't really know how to explain it.
Script: I love syllabaries and cursive writing systems. I also really
like "ornate" writing styles, like in very old books.
Avoiding: I try to avoid what I don't like, and anything that feels too
mechanical or artificial. It's subjective, but I think it's supposed to be.
> 3. Is difficulty or obscurity a goal in inventing a language?
I don't like languages that are difficult just for difficulty's sake. I
try to make my conlangs easy enough that they can be learned.
> 4. Is efficiency a goal in inventing a language? This question needn’t
> cancel out the previous one.
I don't make it a point to be efficient. In a naturalistic language (see
next question) there are cases where efficiency is important, and also
those where it is good to be "wordy".
> 5. How natural do you wish to make it, or is that a concern? Or rather,
> how unnatural do you wish to make it?
I prefer making languges that feel natural. They seem the most realistic.
> 6. Can conlanging be sexy? sensual? obsessing? how does it heal or harm you?
I don't know about these. I guess the best word I could use would be
"cathartic". I can leave this world and its troubles behind, and work on
creating something, using my mind while relaxing it. Something like that.
> *7. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of obscenities?
Not me. I don't have one in English.
> 8. Can it be mystical? To what extent does conlanging fulfill a
> spiritual purpose for you? Or a magical one? Did it ever start out that
> way?
I'm not a spiritual or mystical person, really, so conlanging doesn't
serve that purpose for me. I can see how it would for some people.
> 9. How many of you have developed a rich vocabulary of magical,
> religious, or incantatory terms?
I haven't, but I do want to explore religion in the setting of a conworld.
> *10. How many of you have striven to invent words that express novel
> ideas, or are not expressed in any natural language that you know?
I do. I try to make words with shades of meaning that don't line up with
their English counterparts.
> 11. Name a few of the words in your language(s) that you are most
> pleased with and are the most original to you.
Some of my favorites (mostly for the way they sound):
kraysil ['k4aj.sIl] "artist"
lithir [li.'TIr\] "to know of"
mitsish ['mi.ts)IS] "to give an opinion"
thilu ['Ti.lu] "twilight"
> 12. How do you sense that a word is "right" for its meaning? How much do
> you labor at fitting a sound to its sense? Or don’t you care?
I can't really describe it. When a word feels right, it just feels
right. I try, usually about a minute for any given root.
> *13. Do you ever rely on a software program to build vocabulary? Do
> those who don’t think that’s cheating? :)
I used to. I don't think it's cheating, but it does cause you to lose
some of the thrill of creation. Also, the words seem too artificial.
> *14. Is conlang a hobby, a craft, or an art in your mind? This has been
> hotly debated, so the question is not as weird as it seems. Can
> conlanging be considered an art? Why or why not?
It's all three. It's a hobby because it is something that I enjoy doing,
and something I do in my spare time. It's a craft because it does serve
a purpose, because a language facilitates communciation within its
environment, even if it's not real. And it is an art because each
conlang is unique to its creator or creators. No two are alike, and each
has its own history.
> *15. If it is, who do you think are its consumers?
I'm not sure what this question refers to, but I think that conlangs are
meant for different purposes. Auxlangs, of course, are "marketed" toward
those who need to be understood by many people with different linguistic
backgrounds. Artlangs only really need to impress their creators.
> *16. This question is directed as well at any auxlangers on the list. Is
> it an art, a political tool, both? And who do you think could be its
> consumers?
I'll answer this even though I'm not an auxlanger. Bear with me.
I already said why conlanging is an art earlier, but it can also be a
political tool. Authors of fantasy and science fiction, for example,
very often use their written medium to express their ideologies. Robert
Heinlein and Ayn Rand are two of the best examples of this. There is no
reason why a language cannot do the same. I have even put some of my
personal beliefs into my conlang. It's very difficult, if not
impossible, to completely avoid any reference to your political stance
in a work that you create.
Some people use their languages as a method of propoganda, for lack of a
better term. I think the reasoning is that a person's thoughts are
shaped by the language they speak. I won't debate that now, but I do
understand it. Suffice it to say that I think those people want their
consumers to be those whose politics they are trying to convert, but
they will, in time, simply be preaching to the choir.
> *17. There has been some exciting talk recently (and over the years)
> about what a conlang is or is not. If you could pick a metaphor or write
> a descriptive phrase defining "conlang," what would that be?
Conlang: a form of visual or spoken art where language is both the
object and the medium.
> *18. Why or why not would you eschew the metaphors "miniature" or "model"?
I don't like "miniature" or "model" becuase I see no reason why, given
enough time, a person could *not* make a "complete" language on the
scale of some that are created by natural means.
> *19. Is a conlang more like a glimpse of something lifesize? (Irina’s
> suggestion in 2001)
Conlangs are glimpses of something larger than life. They are on the
scale of nations, races, or worlds.
> *20. There has been some invigorating discussion lately about what a
> conlang can do that most natural languages don’t (such as produce OSV
> structure, or eradicate verbs) What experiments have you made with your
> artlang(s) along these lines?
I'm not one to experiment like that. Suvile has VSO word order, and
Andan has an ergative case system combined with Semitic-style
derivation, but that's about it.
> *21 What do you think distinguishes a conlang from a natural language,
> if you think so at all? What would it take for a linguist to be fooled
> into thinking a conlang was a natural language?
What distinguishes a conlang from a natlang is simple: size. Most
conlangs simply don't have enough of a presence in the world. I don't
think it would take much to fool a linguist, if the conlang had enough
vocabulary, consistency, and history.
> *22. How much do you study other languages in order to discover what is
> natural in language? Or to discover how you can stretch the boundaries
> of language to make it do things that are unnatural?
I like to study other languages (when I can), mostly to see if I can
find a structure I like, or something like that.
> *23. Can such a language function?
I don't see why not.
> *24. There has been quite a bit of fascinating debate about the
> relevance of conlanging to linguistic study. We all know that
> linguistics can aid conlangers, but in what ways can conlangers aid
> linguists? Or does it matter?
Conlangs help linguists because they bring so many new ideas into the
field. Conlangers try to "push the envelope" on what can be understood,
and that helps linguists form theories on how far the envelope can be
pushed. I hope that makes sense. :)
> D. THE LISTSERV
>
> 1. How did you first hear of this list?
There was a link on the Language Construction Kit.
> 2. How long have you been on this listserv or on other related
> listservs? Continuously? Infrequently? Off and on? More off than on and
> vice versa?
On here, about 6 months in 2000, and then continuously reading, but
rarely posting, since November 2003.
> *3. What is the appeal of being on a listserv and contributing to it? Do
> you think you contribute moderately or excessively, or not enough? Do
> you tend to lurk ?
I am a lurker mostly. I do like the mailing list format, because of its
simplicity. I don't like the quotas, but I understand why they are there.
> *4. For those of you who remember its inception, how has it changed over
> the past decade?
n/a
> *5. How helpful has the list been in developing your language? In
> learning linguistic information?
Almost everything I know about linguistics came from here. I hadn't even
heard of trigger systems, for example, until a discussion on the list. I
have used some resources for my conlangs, too. Especially the McGuffey
Reader.
> 6. What books have you consulted? On your own, or because you heard of
> them on the list?
Books I heard about here:
_Describing Morphosyntax_
_The World's Major Languages_
_The METAFONT Book_
Books I read on my own (before or after I got on the list):
_Dictionary of Languages_ by Andrew Halby
_The Power of Babel_ by John McWhorter
_The Stories of English_ by David Crystal
> *7. Do you peruse the websites of other conlangers?
Sometimes.
> *8. Do you sense that people on this list are interested in your conlang
> and give you feedback on it?
I don't think many people on the list are even aware of my conlangs. Or
me, for that matter.
> 9. Have you ever set out to learn at least a little bit of someone’s
> conlang, if only a word or two, or a phrase?
I've tried Esperanto, Tolkien's languages, and Verdurian, I think.
> *10. Do you peruse Jeffrey Henning’s Langmaker.com site?
Not regularly.
> *11. What on-line techniques do you use to showcase your conlang, such
> as Audacity or other sound programs, Dreamweaver, Illustrator,
> Fontography, and so forth? Did you hear of them on the list?
None yet, though I do use Toolbox and Metafont.
> 12. Have you ever tried to introduce a friend to the list?
I don't think I have any friends who would be interested.
> 13. Do you know of anyone who does this kind of thing but who has never
> heard of the list?
No.
> *14. What other lists do you frequent related to conlanging?
Just this one.
> *15. What do you think will be the future of the list? I see it giving
> birth to alternate lists like Conworld, Lostlanguages, Romlang, etc.
> What improves the present list and its helpfulness or entertainment value?
Assuming flame wars don't destroy us, I think CONLANG will become more
of a "central" list, where news and theory and new concepts are posted,
but with more of the actual creations posted on more specific lists.
> *16. What Internet technology would you most like to see developed that
> would aid you in showcasing your language(s)?
Online translation and full Unicode support.
> *17. What lists like conlang exist in other cultures and languages that
> you know of?
I don't know of any, but I'm sure they're out there.
> *18. There has been some terrific talk about CONLANG as a community. And
> yet so many of us seem to want the world to know of it and respect it.
> Is the CONLANG community enough?
We are enough, but we need new ideas sometimes, and those come best from
new faces.
> *19. In my 2000 on-line article
> (
http://journal.media-culture.org.au/0003/languages.php) I suggested
> that the Internet "may provide a site that, with the impetus of
> competition and showmanship, encourages inutile and obsessive activity";
> I was quoting Jeff Salamon’s article "Revenge of the Fanboys." Village
> Voice 13 Sep., 1994. He wrote that over ten years ago. Do outsiders
> still entertain such notions, do you think, about listservs like this
> one? Do you? To what extent has the list increased obsessive development
> in you? Would you be inventing as furiously as you are without the list
> or knowledge of other inventors?
> 20. If asked whether it is not better to turn your linguistic talents to
> the learning and speaking of natural languages (a common response I’ve
> met with and aimed at criticizing introversion or solipsism), how would
> you answer?
Inventing a language isn't the same as learning one. I took 2 years of
Spanish in high school and I can't remember most of it. It's the
creative aspect of conlanging that is most important to me, not the
final result.
> *21. In Elizabethan times there were the inkhorn neologisms. There were
> ciphers and pasigraphies. Today there is conlanging. Do you think the
> contemporary world is more open to language innovation or more closed?
I believe that we are so indoctrinated into believing that the "standard
language" is the only language, that we ignore (or worse, insult)
innovation. Conlanging, rather than neology, has only become popular
(relatively speaking) in the last century or two, and I think it is
partly because of standardization. There are some new words being
invented, like Internet, but they are made from building blocks. Anybody
with any knowledge of Latin or Greek can make thousands of new English
words, and they will all sound just like words we already have.
> *22. What would Tolkien have done with such a community? He writes in "A
> Secret Vice" that language inventors "hardly ever show their works to
> one another, so none of them know who are the geniuses at the game, or
> who are the splendid ‘primitives’." He suggests that perhaps in a later
> time language invention will become respectable, and such things can be
> exhibited. Have we reached that time?
I think we have reached that time. I think we actually reached that time
during Tolkien's life, but he didn't recognize it. We are in the
conlanging era, but it hasn't caught on yet. It's still a hobby for a
certain few. It's building more rapidly now than it did, say, 20 years
ago. I think the popularity of movies and books involving conlangs
(_Lord of the Rings_, among others) is driving the popularity of
conlanging itself. We're still not to the point where I can say "I'm a
conlanger" and it's understood by everyone what I mean.
> *23. Is there a danger that over-exposure can make conlanging "banal"?
> To what extent is it exciting because it is a) considered disreputable,
> "corny" or "mad," or b) largely unknown to the world? Does it have a
> fizzle-out date? In other words, is it just a fad, or is it a natural
> human inclination that will stand the test of time?
I don't do this because no one else does; I do it because it's something
I like to do. I don't follow trends. I do think that we will reach a
critical mass. Once the hype from conlanging in the entertainment world
dies down, we will see a decrease in the newcomers. Art is forever,
though, and as long as humans have languages, I think there will be
people there to create them.
> Finally, may I have your permission to use any of this material of yours
> for my academic work on conlanging? First name? last name? pseudonym?
> anonymous?
By all means, use whatever you want. And with full credit, too! If you
use it, though, could you at least tell me?
>
> Thanks!
You're welcome.
> Sally Caves scaves@frontiernet.net <mailto:scaves@...>
(PS: Wow! 2 hours to write this. Look for my next post in about, oh,
June. :) )
--
Michael