Re: Order of logograms

Hi!

Elyse M. Grasso writes:
> On Monday 23 April 2007 8:22 am, caeruleancentaur wrote:
> > Because logograms cannot be alphabetized, how are they ordered?  There
> > are Chinese dictionaries, aren't there?
> >
> > I have a book, "A Guide To Remembering Japanese Characters," by
> > Kenneth G. Henshall.  It contains "the 1,945 characters prescribed by
> > the Japanese Ministry of Education for everyday use."  The first 996
> > are arranged according to the six-grade system used in Japanese
> > schools.  Then there is a General Use section.  But I don't understand
> > how the characters are arranged within each section.
> >
> > Is there some standard way by which the Chinese arrange the logograms?
> >
> > What I want to do is develop a writing system for Senjecas similar to
> > Japanese: the use of a logogram for the root of the word, along with
> > letters for prefixes, suffixes, particles, etc.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> There are 214 (I think) subcomponents of Chinese characters called radicals.
Those 214 is the set of Kangxi radicals.  There are other sets with
different numbers of radicals.  Usually, Kangxi is for traditional
Chinese, and for simplified characters a different (reduced) set is
used.  IIRC, Unicode uses a modified Kangxi system that enumerates
simplified radicals after their traditional equivalent in order to
unify both types of characters in one list.

As the many answers show, there is not only one system.  My
Langenscheid lexicon is primarily ordered by Roman Pinyin, and
secondarily by radical number + stroke count (i.e., under 'shi4',
you'll first find the characters with the 'simpler' radicals and later
those with the more complex ones).

Furthermore, it has two tables for a visual-only lookup: the first one
is a list of radicals that maps radicals to their number.  With this
number, you look up the character in the second table, where all
existing characters with that radical are listed, ordered by stroke
count.  This table tells you the possible pronunciations which you can
use for the lookup in the main part of the lexicon.

This lookup method requires finding the radical, which is not easy as
was already mentioned, too.  I often fail. :-(

BTW, for sorting the radicals with the same stroke count, the strokes
themselves are ordered: the 12 (or so?) strokes have a fixed order.
For two n-stroke character you first compare the first stroke (the one
you draw first) of each.  If it is different, sort the radicals
accordingly.  If they are the same, look at the second stroke, etc.
In the same way, characters with the same radical and the same number
of remaining strokes are ordered.

What is really hard is to look up a handwritten or calligraphic
character since you can only do that when you know the printed (or
thoroughly written) form or its pronunciation.

It is indeed awefully complex to look up a Chinese character in a
dictionary.

Finally, I cannot abstain from promoting my Script Teacher in this
context where you can learn the Kangxi radicals. :-)

  http://www.theiling.de/schrift/

**Henrik