Re: French spelling scheme

En réponse à Oskar Gudlaugsson <hr_oskar@...>:

>
> Hmm, I thought the -ent ending was completely non-existent, even in
> liaison.
> My system does not abandon liaison at all, though I understand why you
> got
> the impression. So the -ent ending may be kept, I guess.
>
Well, I've discovered lately that the French orthography was not as stupid as I
thought :) . Though it's true there are some inconsistencies, like some
Latinizing orthographies like "compter" pronounced like "conter" (funny enough,
those two words were in fact one, with two meanings that diverged so much that
it stopped being seen as one word. And then came the trend to re-latinize all
words related to science and knowledge, and a few others, which in this case
provoked the change of orthography of "conter" meaning "to count" into
"compter", while "conter" meaning "to recount" stayed the same), most of the
so-called silent letters are here for good reasons, whether it is derivational
reasons (to keep related words related in the orthography, even if the
pronunciation itself has become very different), or liaison reasons (a very
important part of a correct French pronunciation is the mastering of liaison,
and as it happens the orthography is not too bad in showing what kind of liaison
must be pronounced. In fact, in some places it has to add letters to show
liaison - like "demande-t-il" pronounced /d@ma~d@til/ - because it ceased to
write letters - here the {t} of 3rd person singular, still present in other
conjugations - for the same reasons why some spelling reformers would want to
get rid of our silent letters. I think it shows that it's not that bad in itself
to keep some silent letters).

> But this is nice; I'm learning more about French... That was kind of the
> purpose, actually :)
>
:) Please ask more if you want.

>
> >> Almost forgot the c-cedilla... Somewhat more problematic. For the
> time
> >> being, I suppose to simply replace it with "s" whenever applicable,
> >> though
> >> I'm sure the French would really turn their noses to a reformed "Sa
> >> va?" :) :)
> >>
> >
> >It loses etymology, but for the rest it's rather funny :) .
>
> An alternate idea is to add a "palatalizing e", as per "il mangeait":
> "Cea
> va?" and "nous commenceons". That would be quite Romance-style :)
>
In fact, in my Romance conlang Narbonósc, {c} and {g} behave exactly the same:
- {c} and {g} before a, o, u, {cu} and {gu} before e, i, for the hard sounds /k/
and /g/,
- {c} and {g} before e, i, {ce} and {ge} before a, o, u, for the soft sounds /s/
and /Z/.
I liked it, because it puts a balance I like and allowed me not to use the
cedilla (didn't fit with Narbonósc character at all, though diacritics do:
Narbonósc uses the acute accent, the grave accent, the circumflex accent, the
diaeresis and the tilde :) ).

>
> >> Now on to my favorite, the "Latinization" scheme. My principal move
> is
> >> the
> >> introduction of "silent l": syllable final {el}, {al}, and {ol} are
> >> pronounced as {eau}, {au}, and {ou} (I know, {eau} and {au} are
> >> pronounced
> >> the same - just hinting at where it's coming from), except when
> followed
> >> by
> >> a vowel, in which case they're fully pronounced (pretty much the rule
> >> for
> >> any final consonant in French).
> >
> >Wow, this one is nice! I like it.
>
> Thanks! :)
>
Well, I've realized that it would not be that good. Think of words like cheval
/S@'val/, pl. chevaux /S@'vo/ (very current), and even words like chacal
/Sa'kal/, pl. chacals /Sa'kal/ (considered an exception of the former type).
With your rule of the silent l, it would bring quite a lot of exceptions...

>
> The first {o} is no problem because the fronting rule only applies to
> _stressed_ /o/. I saw "motor" in some silly dictionary, that's
> irrelevant. Perhaps "Garonne" is a better example...
>
Then what about a word like "heureux"? the first /2/ is not stressed...

>
> "Quatorze", all right :) Evidement, je suis pas Francophone! :p The case
> is
> rather that I've learnt French from mostly two sources: a) speaking with
> the
> French, which has only aided my practical learning, not my formal
> learning;
> b) from sucky classes that don't deal with anything close to the voicing
> details of various French words, such as "quatorze". Foreign study of
> French
> is a bit primitive, sometimes at least... :p
>
:)

>
> Yes, "hor"... stupid mistake. I would have put the "s" in "moins" if I'd
> only have remembered its presence :p :p This is really helping my
> French! :p
>
He he...

>
> Sure! :) I've made reforms of Icelandic too, so bring it on! :p
>
Actually it was really a joke, I know far too little about Icelandic to do such
a thing :) .

Christophe.

http://rainbow.conlang.free.fr