Re: Palatalization

>>> hmiller@IO.COM 4/12/2004 11:17:50 PM >>>
James Worlton wrote:

> For those of you with more phoetic knowledge than I:
>
> (In CSX) What is the difference (if any) between
>
> t_j and c
> d_j and J\
Palatal stops ( [c] and [J\] ) are pronounced with the middle of the
tongue touching the roof of the mouth, while palatalized stops (like
[t_j] or [k_j]) just place the tongue near the roof of the mouth without
touching. I don't know if there are any languages that contrast [t_j]
and [k_j] with [c], or [d_j] and [g_j] with [J\], but palatalized stops
like [t_j] and [d_j] are found in Russian, while the sounds of Hungarian
"ty" and "gy" are said to be palatal stops. Irish has a contrast between
palatalized [t_j] [d_j] and velarized [t_G] [d_G].

[snip useful URLs]
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Thanks. Your explanations make sense. My original plan was to have the
palatalized stops [t_j], [d_j], etc. instead of the palatal stops [c], [J\],
etc. I think I need to think about this some more.
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>>> estel_telcontar@YAHOO.CA 4/12/2004 11:38:27 PM >>>
James Worlton ha tera a:

> For those of you with more phoetic knowledge than I:
>
[snip]

My guess (which may well be wrong) is that [t_j] and [d_j] involve
contact between the tongue and the alveolar ridge or the teeth, with
the rest of the tongue in a more [i] or [j] like shape, giving a sort
of off-glide to the consonant (Yeah, I know, off-glides are sposta be
for diphthongs, but it seems like it should be called an off-glide).
On the other hand, [c] and [J\] would have contact between the tongue
and the hard palate.

-Estel
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Thanks. I can hear the difference, and your explanation makes sense.
After deep contemplation (since replying to Herman a few lines ago),
I think I'll stick with my original plan of palatalizing the [t] and [d] (and
others) instead of employing their closest 'palatal' versions.

James W.